Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]

    Search       Member List      Official United Site     ArabZone      ArabTRUST       BBC Sport     Twitter
Welcome to The Arab League, one of the longest established Dundee United Football forums, with many members from the old ArabFC forum.

New members are always welcomed, so to join the debate, just sign up - registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Join The Arab League!


If you're already a member please log in:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Students; Tuition Fees or Free Tuition?
Topic Started: Nov 25 2010, 05:25 PM (1,021 Views)
whatsthatonyourback
Member Avatar
Waldo Jeffers
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Nice to see students take to the streets again - I can't quite remember the last time they organised particularly effectively over something.

No wonder they're protesting - the country needs well-educated citizens, yet is asking those citizens to pay directly and increasingly for that education.

We already have a progressive tax system that takes more from those that earn more - I don't see why this shouldn't be sufficient, if a higher education means you will earn more money as a result.

And anyway, how dare the old - i.e. people in their late thirties up - decide to charge the young for education that they got for free, and in many cases were actually paid significant grants in the process. These young people are already going to be burdened with earning the money to pay these old c*nts' pensions, pensions that are based on financial bollocks and property speculation that has just blown up in everyone's faces. And is still, in fact, detonating around us.

If I were a youngster going to Uni right now, I'd not be at all happy.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Eggman
Member Avatar
Tommy McLean
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Not only should fees not rise, but they should be abolished (for the reasons you're put forward).

Although I think there should be a range of those that are 'free', and some that shouldn't be funded by the state (film studies and such like).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
YazooArab
Member Avatar
Paul Sturrock
[ *  * ]
The conundrum is that making it free is likely to reduce investment in the sector and potentially then reduce access which will ironically affect those from poorer communities disproportionately. I do not think it is unreasonable for students to contribute to the cost of their studies once they are in a position to do so. I accept the argument on general taxation however but think that is counterbalanced by students having to think more seriously about how they approach their student life when they themselves are paying the bill.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Setenza
Member Avatar
Knitting with only one needle
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
whatsthatonyourback
Nov 25 2010, 05:25 PM


We already have a progressive tax system that takes more from those that earn more - I don't see why this shouldn't be sufficient, if a higher education means you will earn more money as a result.

But it's not generating enough to pay for the demands of the system it would seem.

Options of asking everyone to pay more, or asking them to pay more, as usuall, not enough people out of everyone is willing to pay more, so I think it's the best system they can try.

I still think a large problem is too many students. The country needs eductated peoeple, but there's little good for a country in educated people in areas there no jobs for, or too many students for.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Naebody
Member Avatar
Twat
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
For the majority of students, the standard of tertiary education received is not good enough. That's the big problem. There's negligible value to society in sending its youth to get a degree based on ~10 hours a week of modular self-assessment lectures they don't show up to (and, yes, I speak from experience).

University standards need to be raised, and universities should remain free at source. If the taxpayer won't stump up for standards to be raised universally then fewer people should go to university. It's not that people shouldn't go to university, it's that the taxpayer should give the best education possible based solely on a meritocracy. After that, if those who can afford it want to fund their own dim progeny's way through education, they're welcome to do so outwith the state funding system.

Should Dundee have two universities? Probably not. I'm not entirely convinced that it should even have one.

By the way, if you haven't yet read the New Statesman's domesticated young'un on the protests, do.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ivan
Member Avatar
F*cking plebs.
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I'd abolish tuition fees and even bring back maintenance grants but I'd limit the number of places to pay for it. I'm not entirely clear why successive governments are so obsessed with sending every second school leaver to university. Most jobs don't require a graduate education, meanwhile there's a chronic shortage of skilled tradesmen.

So, I'd propose free university education for those who need it and put the work in to achieve it and properly funded technical colleges and apprenticeships for those whose skills lie elsewhere.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Conan the Destroyer
Member Avatar
I prefer it when we're pish
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I'm reliably informed by many working in Universities that they are swamped with kids who neither have need of nor the ability to complete a degree. So, I'd agree with Ivan's proposal.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
yasser
Member Avatar
Ivan Golac
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Conan the Destroyer
Nov 26 2010, 02:03 PM
I'm reliably informed by many working in Universities that they are swamped with kids who neither have need of nor the ability to complete a degree. So, I'd agree with Ivan's proposal.

I’ve worked in a University for the last twenty years and have met very few if any students who have lacked the ability to complete a degree. Of course I can only speak of my experience of one relatively small department in a relatively small Uni. I do agree with the need for Technical Colleges and apprenticeships; both of which were virtually decimated during in Thatcher era when it was decided we no longer needed an engineering/manufacturing industry and moved towards a service economy.

It’s somewhat ironic that virtually all of the politicians calling for tuition fees benefited from a ‘free’ higher education.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Naebody
Member Avatar
Twat
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Conan the Destroyer
Nov 26 2010, 02:03 PM
Ivan's proposal.

Hmf.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Skeletor
Member Avatar
Most likely to be Ann Widdecombe
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Naebody
Nov 26 2010, 01:17 PM
By the way, if you haven't yet read the New Statesman's domesticated young'un on the protests, do.

That article alone would bring those backing free education to question their standpoint. It is pathetic both in mode and content, from start to finish, and included many things that make you realise how weak this generation is. Also, the use of "cops" particularly pissed me off.


Anybody who questions giving a free education to those willing to partake in one, whilst fully aware of the amounts of money going to war, should take a serious look at how this government grips them.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
whatsthatonyourback
Member Avatar
Waldo Jeffers
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Skeletor
Nov 26 2010, 10:20 PM
Naebody
Nov 26 2010, 01:17 PM
By the way, if you haven't yet read the New Statesman's domesticated young'un on the protests, do.

That article alone would bring those backing free education to question their standpoint. It is pathetic both in mode and content, from start to finish, and included many things that make you realise how weak this generation is. Also, the use of "cops" particularly pissed me off.


Anybody who questions giving a free education to those willing to partake in one, whilst fully aware of the amounts of money going to war, should take a serious look at how this government grips them.

Didn't really follow you there, Skel.

You seem to be using the article as evidence that those proposing free education should question that belief, then that those questioning free education should question themselves.

Wouldn't this lead to anyone following your advice to be caught in some sort of infinite self-questioning loop, rendering them mentally paralysed?

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Skeletor
Member Avatar
Most likely to be Ann Widdecombe
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
whatsthatonyourback
Nov 27 2010, 12:29 PM
Skeletor
Nov 26 2010, 10:20 PM
Naebody
Nov 26 2010, 01:17 PM
By the way, if you haven't yet read the New Statesman's domesticated young'un on the protests, do.

That article alone would bring those backing free education to question their standpoint. It is pathetic both in mode and content, from start to finish, and included many things that make you realise how weak this generation is. Also, the use of "cops" particularly pissed me off.


Anybody who questions giving a free education to those willing to partake in one, whilst fully aware of the amounts of money going to war, should take a serious look at how this government grips them.

Didn't really follow you there, Skel.

You seem to be using the article as evidence that those proposing free education should question that belief, then that those questioning free education should question themselves.

Wouldn't this lead to anyone following your advice to be caught in some sort of infinite self-questioning loop, rendering them mentally paralysed?

Read it as me saying the article is shite, then giving you my opinion
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Alpha
Member Avatar
Craig Brewster
[ *  *  * ]
whatsthatonyourback
Nov 25 2010, 05:25 PM
Nice to see students take to the streets again - I can't quite remember the last time they organised particularly effectively over something.

No wonder they're protesting - the country needs well-educated citizens, yet is asking those citizens to pay directly and increasingly for that education.

We already have a progressive tax system that takes more from those that earn more - I don't see why this shouldn't be sufficient, if a higher education means you will earn more money as a result.

And anyway, how dare the old - i.e. people in their late thirties up - decide to charge the young for education that they got for free, and in many cases were actually paid significant grants in the process. These young people are already going to be burdened with earning the money to pay these old c*nts' pensions, pensions that are based on financial bollocks and property speculation that has just blown up in everyone's faces. And is still, in fact, detonating around us.

If I were a youngster going to Uni right now, I'd not be at all happy.

I am in my late 30`s very late 30`s and I am currently sitting a degree course at Uni and I aint too chuffed either about this.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Art Vandelay
Member Avatar
the king of carrot flowers
[ *  *  * ]
This sums up my feelings on the matter, torn as I am between my belief in the right to a free education and my irrational dislike of undergraduate students. I didn't even like students all that much when I was one.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create your own social network with a free forum.
Learn More · Sign-up for Free
« Previous Topic · Off Topic · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Find this theme on Forum2Forum.net & ZNR exclusively.