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vs Hibs; 30/10
Topic Started: Oct 27 2010, 12:25 PM (2,415 Views)
YazooArab
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Paul Sturrock
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That is utter pish Gordon, with all due respect we do have other players at Tannadice a number of whom can be equally and possibly even more influential. Goodie is not keeping this team afloat Skels but granted he is playing very well and deserving his of starting place. As for selling him, he is no different fro any of our players, if we get an offer that turns a decent buck he is offski.
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Naebody
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Twat
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Skeletor
Oct 31 2010, 06:21 PM
I'd say we shouldn't, because he's floating the team right now and without him, the worth of the others would plummet with our league position

Hm. Do remember that, during the close-season just past, only one offer was received, and that was for a player who by January will be worth zero.

If selling Goodwillie secures enough cash to pay for the club's relative competitiveness over the next decade, I say sell. And if selling Goodwillie carries any threat of relegation by May, I say keep. It's a tough one.
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Ivan
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F*cking plebs.
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Naebody
Oct 31 2010, 08:53 PM
Skeletor
Oct 31 2010, 06:21 PM
I'd say we shouldn't, because he's floating the team right now and without him, the worth of the others would plummet with our league position

Hm. Do remember that, during the close-season just past, only one offer was received, and that was for a player who by January will be worth zero.

If selling Goodwillie secures enough cash to pay for the club's relative competitiveness over the next decade, I say sell. And if selling Goodwillie carries any threat of relegation by May, I say keep. It's a tough one.

Well, neither of those scenarios are likely to develop so we're no further forward. We won't achieve a great sum for Goodie, because we're too desperate for the money to play hard to get, and neither will we flounder hopelessly without him. We will suffer though and we'll be much less fun to watch.

I mean this in the most unsnotty way possible but, as someone who actually goes to the games and pays money for the privilege, I hope Goodie stays at least until the end of his current contract even if that means he walks away for free at the end of it. I realise that won't sit comfortably with the bean counters but there it is.
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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If Goodwillie left, a different striker would be in his place. A different striker who would score a few goals probably,, and do some of the work Goodwillie does..

When Robson left, a lot of people worried that we'd sink. When Flood left, a lot of people thought we'd suffer a fair bit as well.

Individuals come and go, but teams survive and progress. Sure, teams sometimes go backwards a bit, for a while. Rarely is there such a collapse like the one that happened after Dodds left for Hun.
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YazooArab
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Paul Sturrock
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Totally agre Eggy. Crackers left and we did OK :hit:
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Ivan
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F*cking plebs.
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What a pile of old wank.

I've no problem with nihilism but if you're going to apply it to football then you're fundamentally missing the point. My investment at United is as tied to the players (or at least those players who, for whatever reason, appeal to me) as it is to the corporate body.

I did miss Flood when he left and it diminished my enjoyment of the game. Likewise, Kevin Gallacher, Ray McKinnon, Billy McKinlay, Christian Dailly and Paddy Connolly. I pay my money to support my favourites. It makes all the difference in the world when my favourites leave. Otherwise, if it's not about personality then it's just some random guys running around playing football, mostly badly.

Of course, it's perfectly legitimate to say that United are a business and the bottom line is the most important thing. That's fine but I do wonder at the mentality of someone who would support a private company in such a manner.
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Naebody
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Twat
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Ivan
Oct 31 2010, 08:19 PM
Well, neither of those scenarios are likely to develop so we're no further forward. We won't achieve a great sum for Goodie, because we're too desperate for the money to play hard to get, and neither will we flounder hopelessly without him. We will suffer though and we'll be much less fun to watch.

That's a peculiar argument. "Because we're a distressed seller we shouldn't sell."

I was careful not to suggest that selling Goodwillie (or any player, realistically) would cure United's finances. That's the nature of being distressed. A fee nudging into seven figures would, nevertheless, put the club on a steadier footing than it is currently. If the cost of keeping Goodwillie were to cut another 50% off costs by 2012 then I, for one, would rather see the club act pragmatically.

Oh, and I'm surprised you're assuming that the United team you've been watching this season is safe from relagation. 1995 still lives fresh in my memory.

(And, yes, I concede to your jibe about "actually going to games." These are the dark thoughts of someone forcibly separated from their team. It's difficult to keep the romance in a long-distance relationship.)



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Ivan
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F*cking plebs.
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Naebody
Oct 31 2010, 10:33 PM
Ivan
Oct 31 2010, 08:19 PM
Well, neither of those scenarios are likely to develop so we're no further forward. We won't achieve a great sum for Goodie, because we're too desperate for the money to play hard to get, and neither will we flounder hopelessly without him. We will suffer though and we'll be much less fun to watch.

That's a peculiar argument. "Because we're a distressed seller we shouldn't sell."

I was careful not to suggest that selling Goodwillie (or any player, realistically) would cure United's finances. That's the nature of being distressed. A fee nudging into seven figures would, nevertheless, put the club on a steadier footing than it is currently. If the cost of keeping Goodwillie were to cut another 50% off costs by 2012 then I, for one, would rather see the club act pragmatically.

Oh, and I'm surprised you're assuming that the United team you've been watching this season is safe from relagation. 1995 still lives fresh in my memory.

(And, yes, I concede to your jibe about "actually going to games." These are the dark thoughts of someone forcibly separated from their team. It's difficult to keep the romance in a long-distance relationship.)

Or, to put it another way, 'we won't get value so there's no reason to sell', although since that's not the argument I was making there's no reason to rehearse it further. Unless you really want to.

The argument which I was actually making, and which I think I was pretty clear about, is that I'd rather we didn't sell Goodwillie because, as a consumer, I don't want the product I consume to be diminished. We're a mostly dull and unentertaining team this season with one very bright spark up front. I won't get a rebate on my season ticket if he goes and neither, I suspect, will I see noticeable improvement in the team in the longer term. So, what's in it for me?

And I'd care less if I didn't go to the games too. That wasn't a dig, just a suggestion as to where our perspectives diverge.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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Ivan
Oct 31 2010, 10:26 PM
What a pile of old wank.

Have I missed something?
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Setenza
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Knitting with only one needle
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Ivan
Oct 31 2010, 11:03 PM

The argument which I was actually making, and which I think I was pretty clear about, is that I'd rather we didn't sell Goodwillie because, as a consumer, I don't want the product I consume to be diminished. We're a mostly dull and unentertaining team this season with one very bright spark up front. I won't get a rebate on my season ticket if he goes and neither, I suspect, will I see noticeable improvement in the team in the longer term. So, what's in it for me?

The chance to see slightly better in future maybe.

Maybe if we'd have sold him, or others, in the summer, we could have kept a couple of the more interesting players we've let go, or bring in newer ones, so we wouldn't be a 1 man team at the moment.

Worst case is we have one bright light, then he goes with nothing, and we get slowly worse.
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Skeletor
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Most likely to be Ann Widdecombe
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Thats a fine point raised regarding the departure of other key players. I can't quite remember how exactly we filled the gaps, but when one left another player seems to step up their game. However both of those players were midfielders and we've always had an abundance of upstarts all too willing to step up to the plate, this being United's strength over recent years.
I'd really, as a 'consumer' (as Ivan put it), really rather we kept Goodwillie because he is a rare gem in the current squad; a relentless powerhouse and a striker we can rely on. The result of us selling him in January could easily also be financial turmoil as we sink like a bag of cats in the boggy piss-water of the SPL, without a forward who can consistently find the back of the net.
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Naebody
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Twat
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Ivan
Oct 31 2010, 10:03 PM
The argument which I was actually making, and which I think I was pretty clear about, is that I'd rather we didn't sell Goodwillie because, as a consumer, I don't want the product I consume to be diminished. We're a mostly dull and unentertaining team this season with one very bright spark up front. I won't get a rebate on my season ticket if he goes and neither, I suspect, will I see noticeable improvement in the team in the longer term. So, what's in it for me?

And I'd care less if I didn't go to the games too. That wasn't a dig, just a suggestion as to where our perspectives diverge.

Chill. I agree, approximately. Think I argued elsewhere that punting Sandaza to sign Severn had all the romance of stamping on kittens, or similar. The importance of entertainment is woefully underappreciated by those in charge of providing it.

But because we're providing so little entertainment anyway, Goodwillie as our MVP becomes an interesting case. He's valuable to the team at the moment, obviously, but is his value on the pitch this season greater or lesser than his value to the club's wellbeing in seasons that await? I don't know the answer, which is why I asked the question.

Perhaps It's not a matter of absentee fans such as myself caring less about the club. Maybe it's about us taking a more dispassionate view. (And, to be clear, I'm not claiming that a dispassionate view is better than a passionate one.)
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