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Multicultural society has failed; says Merkel
Topic Started: Oct 18 2010, 05:50 PM (1,589 Views)
Setenza
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Knitting with only one needle
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I really hate the term multicultural society. It can mean anything, but if you critisise it, it never sounds good to many.

I don't agree with her opinions here about getting people to speak German or reducing immigaration to protect some sort of preferred german culture. But all of the idea of several different communities, I've never liked. Seems to make people feel live victims.

And I don't like spokesmen for communitues - how can one person represent the black or muslim community? They don't.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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Setenza
Oct 18 2010, 06:50 PM
I really hate the term multicultural society. It can mean anything, but if you critisise it, it never sounds good to many.

I agree - it's not fair. Whatever the hell "fair" means these days. But it means something to most people, just not the same thing.

I'm kind of on the fence on this one - I understand most of the concerns about a "multicultural" society and agree with some, but don't like many of the solutions to overcome these problems.

Plus, people that dislike "multicultural" anything are usually c*nts. And my attitude towards them is part of the reason it's so hard to have a sensible debate about it.
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YazooArab
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Paul Sturrock
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I don't think requiring immigrants to the UK to have to able to speak German is such a good idea to be honest.
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Barca87
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Gordon Chisholm
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Interestingly the DFB hve made an advert that was shown on mainstream German channels supporting integratoin

DFB Integration Advert

It has been the softening of the rules and laws around who can secure citizenship that has enabled Ozil for example to get a passport and decide to play for Germany (where as the Turkish FA had an office in western Germany and half their World Cup 2002 side were born in Germany, but that has fallen in recent years).
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Setenza
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whatsthatonyourback
Oct 18 2010, 07:30 PM

Plus, people that dislike "multicultural" anything are usually c*nts. And my attitude towards them is part of the reason it's so hard to have a sensible debate about it.

I think that's the problem.

I think multicultral can only fail when you try to control it of manipulate. If you let it happen, it's going to work naturally.

Not that everyone wants it, but I think it's always presented as an anti-racist thing than anything else, which limits argument and valid critisisms.



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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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Setenza
Oct 19 2010, 10:51 AM
I think multicultral can only fail when you try to control it of manipulate. If you let it happen, it's going to work naturally.

Indeed. It's reasonable for people to learn at least the basics of the language of the new country they're moving to.

But then who decides what the basics are, and who funds that learning, etc.

Surely there aren't many people who move to a new country and don't try to learn the language to some extent.

And what does integration mean tangibly? Is there a specific society to which they should integrate? Should they be doing more German things*? What does being German even mean, anyway?

*Building cars, brewing beer, playing efficient football, invading countries....

Expanding that more continentally, if I move to Andalucia, should I need to attend bull fights, and throw tied up goats off clock towers? If an Italian moves to Scotland, do they need to get pished every weekend, drink Irn-Bru, eat pies and watch Sportscene?
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Setenza
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The Eggman
Oct 19 2010, 12:28 PM
Setenza
Oct 19 2010, 10:51 AM
I think multicultral can only fail when you try to control it of manipulate. If you let it happen, it's going to work naturally.

Indeed. It's reasonable for people to learn at least the basics of the language of the new country they're moving to.

But then who decides what the basics are, and who funds that learning, etc.

I'm sure lots of people move to various cities around the world without knowing the local language, and get along fine.

I actaully like it. Someone moves to London from spain without knowing any english - they'll have to pick it up a bit to get a job / get around. There'll be other spanish speakers around too.

Ok, they won't be perfect, it won't be properly tought, but it won't need funded either. No-one needs to decide what the basics are, or fund it. If you can't pick enough up to get by, that's their loss.

Sure Pernis knows more english now than when he first arrived.
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Clarkie
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It always amazes me the amount of daily mail reader types that moan about immigrants in this country not speaking the language or integrating but then go and retire to the south of France or Spain.

If wiki can be believed there are 3/4m Brits living in Spain I'm pretty sure the majority of them have no knowledge of Spanish and live in Brittish ghetto's on the Costas where they very rarely integrate with the natives.

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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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Setenza
Oct 19 2010, 04:48 PM
I'm sure lots of people move to various cities around the world without knowing the local language, and get along fine.

I actaully like it. Someone moves to London from spain without knowing any english - they'll have to pick it up a bit to get a job / get around. There'll be other spanish speakers around too.

I'm sure. I don't mean that people should know the language before they move there. But when you're there, it's rare to not pick up the lingo if you're living in it.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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The Eggman
Oct 19 2010, 09:22 PM
But when you're there, it's rare to not pick up the lingo if you're living in it.

And you've lived in the UK for how long, Eggs?
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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whatsthatonyourback
Oct 19 2010, 11:07 PM
The Eggman
Oct 19 2010, 09:22 PM
But when you're there, it's rare to not pick up the lingo if you're living in it.

And you've lived in the UK for how long, Eggs?

Funny f*cker.
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findus
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Jerry Kerr
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Lines on maps, the great architect of creating imaginary differentiations between peoples that the masses totally buy into. The world is 'multicultural', Merkel, not much you can do to stop that. We might as well follow this kind of map:

Posted Image

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YazooArab
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Paul Sturrock
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Boney-M represent the best in Teutonic integration then?
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Conan the Destroyer
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findus
Oct 23 2010, 08:35 AM
Lines on maps, the great architect of creating imaginary differentiations between peoples that the masses totally buy into. The world is 'multicultural', Merkel, not much you can do to stop that. We might as well follow this kind of map:

Posted Image

Define "light".
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findus
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Jerry Kerr
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Conan the Destroyer
Oct 24 2010, 02:42 PM
findus
Oct 23 2010, 08:35 AM
Lines on maps, the great architect of creating imaginary differentiations between peoples that the masses totally buy into. The world is 'multicultural', Merkel, not much you can do to stop that. We might as well follow this kind of map:

Posted Image

Define "light".

Interesting. These borders could be based on shades of lightness, or on hair weight. For the latter it would be a simple case of haircuts replacing passports. Though how you'd get back to your country of departure short of waiting is open to speculation. Though waiting might be a built in replacement for residence visas and such.
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