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Scotland Team v Czechs
Topic Started: Oct 7 2010, 09:38 PM (2,942 Views)
Art Vandelay
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the king of carrot flowers
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whatsthatonyourback
Oct 9 2010, 01:44 PM
Well that was a pretty desperate performance, tactically, individually and verbally.

I wonder if Sir Craig now regrets taking the job he obviously shouldn't have taken. His reputation is taking a huge knock, there's not really much he can do to fix the problems Scotland has and yet he's got nobody to blame but himself.

I think he's also miscalculated what kind of demeanour is appropriate for a Scotland manager when he gets interviewed. As a club manager, it's OK to be chippy, snippy and slanted. You're only representing your one club in a nation of many, so it's expected. However, when you represent the national team, you need to suck up all the media attention, idiotic or not, smile and mouth platitudes that are basically unreportable. Give the media any more and it's going to get picked over into infinity by the cretinous punditocracy, making your job much harder.

Get out while you can, Sir Craig. Just not to anyone else in Scotland.

This. He has to try and keep the idiot pundits onside, as you say. Sir Craig had many talents, but not as a crowd-pleaser. We loved his antagonistic and controversial nature at United, a national manager has to be a bit more diplomatic and dare I say dumbed down.
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Setenza
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Knitting with only one needle
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whatsthatonyourback
Oct 9 2010, 01:44 PM
Well that was a pretty desperate performance, tactically, individually and verbally.

I wonder if Sir Craig now regrets taking the job he obviously shouldn't have taken. His reputation is taking a huge knock, there's not really much he can do to fix the problems Scotland has and yet he's got nobody to blame but himself.

I think he's also miscalculated what kind of demeanour is appropriate for a Scotland manager when he gets interviewed. As a club manager, it's OK to be chippy, snippy and slanted. You're only representing your one club in a nation of many, so it's expected. However, when you represent the national team, you need to suck up all the media attention, idiotic or not, smile and mouth platitudes that are basically unreportable. Give the media any more and it's going to get picked over into infinity by the cretinous punditocracy, making your job much harder.

Get out while you can, Sir Craig. Just not to anyone else in Scotland.

He's always been pretty media friendly in a strange way though - a regular on bbc stuff, and sure has a good few friends there regardless. Not sure about the papers though.

I'm sure the only thing in his mind is qualifying, and he doesn't care much beyond that what anyone things. I can't imagine a few of the players liked the system either, so that's another battle.

But he knows his job is safe for this campaign, if he does qualify, he's right, if he doesn't, he can leave and won't care about the media he's leaving behind.
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Art Vandelay
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the king of carrot flowers
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Setenza
Oct 9 2010, 02:46 PM
whatsthatonyourback
Oct 9 2010, 01:44 PM
Well that was a pretty desperate performance, tactically, individually and verbally.

I wonder if Sir Craig now regrets taking the job he obviously shouldn't have taken. His reputation is taking a huge knock, there's not really much he can do to fix the problems Scotland has and yet he's got nobody to blame but himself.

I think he's also miscalculated what kind of demeanour is appropriate for a Scotland manager when he gets interviewed. As a club manager, it's OK to be chippy, snippy and slanted. You're only representing your one club in a nation of many, so it's expected. However, when you represent the national team, you need to suck up all the media attention, idiotic or not, smile and mouth platitudes that are basically unreportable. Give the media any more and it's going to get picked over into infinity by the cretinous punditocracy, making your job much harder.

Get out while you can, Sir Craig. Just not to anyone else in Scotland.

He's always been pretty media friendly in a strange way though - a regular on bbc stuff, and sure has a good few friends there regardless. Not sure about the papers though.

I'm sure the only thing in his mind is qualifying, and he doesn't care much beyond that what anyone things. I can't imagine a few of the players liked the system either, so that's another battle.

But he knows his job is safe for this campaign, if he does qualify, he's right, if he doesn't, he can leave and won't care about the media he's leaving behind.

Despite the silly tactics last night, I still think second place in the group is doable - although it does mean winning all remaining games aside from the Spain ones. The knee jerk reactions (get Souness in? You do realise international managers don't get chequebooks?) don't help.
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Barca87
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I think the Scotland has magnified some of the things that we used to have a little moan (I stress little) about - inabiility to beat stuffy organised teams who we knew were crap compared to us and reluctance to make a game changing subbie until it was too late.

However, what was depressing about last night is that some of his strengths at Tannadice have disappeared - the fact he seemed so spooked by the Czechs is bizarre. They are not that great a side and do not compare to the side of 5 years ago, so why was he talking about them like they were not far off the SPannish? He would never have allowed his United side to turn up in Glasgow and play that way, so why now? In my view he had consigned us to defeat before kick off, and his team selections, even allowing for call-offs are bizarre. Is Jamie Mackie more deserving than Goodie or Riordan? Should Phil Bardsley be in the squad at all? Does Kenneth deserve being sent to Coventry after the Sweden game?

I know there is the argument about how poor Scotland is, but I felt to turn up last night and not play a striker and hope that we could sneak a 0-0 against a side who are not all that either was the most depressing thing as Chippy suggested.

Last night really was the pits.
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Ivan
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F*cking plebs.
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Last night was undoubtedly crap but I'd still give him credit for trying something new, however misconceived. It at least shows that he's thinking about problems and their solutions, trying to make an impact. Rather that than following the tried and tested (and failed) answers of previous managers.

I think he'll be lucky to see out the campaign at this rate though. I wonder if Houstie is in the market for another assistant.
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Anybody
Paul Sturrock
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Ivan
Oct 9 2010, 05:05 PM
It at least shows that he's thinking about problems and their solutions

The problem being that Czech's are so far superior to us (even thugh Lithuania went there and won)? :unsure: The solution, try not to make any attempt to score a goal whislt letting them come at us relentlessly until they score. Then, and only then. shall we play for the draw by playing a more attacking game. Which when we did, we looked like we'd have been more than capable of scoring if we started that way.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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Anybody
Oct 9 2010, 07:30 PM
The solution, try not to make any attempt to score a goal whislt letting them come at us relentlessly until they score. Then, and only then. shall we play for the draw by playing a more attacking game. Which when we did, we looked like we'd have been more than capable of scoring if we started that way.

Sadly, that's about right. We restricted them to few chances and they didn't look at all sharp with the ones they did get, but we surrendered so much possession to them and spent next to no time in the attacking third of the pitch that they were always going to get another chance. We defended well when they had possession, but they always had possession.
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findus
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Jerry Kerr
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whatsthatonyourback
Oct 10 2010, 02:54 AM
Anybody
Oct 9 2010, 07:30 PM
The solution, try not to make any attempt to score a goal whislt letting them come at us relentlessly until they score.  Then, and only then. shall we play for the draw by playing a more attacking game. Which when we did, we looked like we'd have been more than capable of scoring if we started that way.

Sadly, that's about right. We restricted them to few chances and they didn't look at all sharp with the ones they did get, but we surrendered so much possession to them and spent next to no time in the attacking third of the pitch that they were always going to get another chance. We defended well when they had possession, but they always had possession.

Indeed.

Awful application of game theory, Craig.
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Barca87
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Gordon Chisholm
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Ivan
Oct 9 2010, 05:05 PM
Last night was undoubtedly crap but I'd still give him credit for trying something new, however misconceived. It at least shows that he's thinking about problems and their solutions, trying to make an impact. Rather that than following the tried and tested (and failed) answers of previous managers.

I think he'll be lucky to see out the campaign at this rate though. I wonder if Houstie is in the market for another assistant.

I agree it was something new, but it was also the most depressing and defeatist approach to a game I've seen.
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Cobardon
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Barca87
Oct 10 2010, 06:43 AM
Ivan
Oct 9 2010, 05:05 PM
Last night was undoubtedly crap but I'd still give him credit for trying something new, however misconceived. It at least shows that he's thinking about problems and their solutions, trying to make an impact. Rather that than following the tried and tested (and failed) answers of previous managers.

I think he'll be lucky to see out the campaign at this rate though. I wonder if Houstie is in the market for another assistant.

I agree it was something new, but it was also the most depressing and defeatist approach to a game I've seen.

That's the depressing thing. I could just about have accepted it if we'd been away to Spain, where a ground out draw would have been an achievement: but the Czechs (ranked at a lowly #37) had just lost in Prague to Lithuania and were surely beatable for a team with the attacking flair of guys like Dorrans, Morrison and, yes, even Kenny Miller on his current form-of-a-lifetime. We gave them much needed confidence by ceding initiative to the extent that we were proving we thought they were one of the big guys: the Czechs must have been delighted when they saw the formation.

I think it speaks very poorly of Levein, who never sent out teams like that at Ibrox, for example, as Barca said. I can only assume the scale of the job (and the difference in scrutiny) has got to him.
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Ivan
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F*cking plebs.
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Cobardon
Oct 10 2010, 10:44 AM
Barca87
Oct 10 2010, 06:43 AM
Ivan
Oct 9 2010, 05:05 PM
Last night was undoubtedly crap but I'd still give him credit for trying something new, however misconceived. It at least shows that he's thinking about problems and their solutions, trying to make an impact. Rather that than following the tried and tested (and failed) answers of previous managers.

I think he'll be lucky to see out the campaign at this rate though. I wonder if Houstie is in the market for another assistant.

I agree it was something new, but it was also the most depressing and defeatist approach to a game I've seen.

That's the depressing thing. I could just about have accepted it if we'd been away to Spain, where a ground out draw would have been an achievement: but the Czechs (ranked at a lowly #37) had just lost in Prague to Lithuania and were surely beatable for a team with the attacking flair of guys like Dorrans, Morrison and, yes, even Kenny Miller on his current form-of-a-lifetime. We gave them much needed confidence by ceding initiative to the extent that we were proving we thought they were one of the big guys: the Czechs must have been delighted when they saw the formation.

I think it speaks very poorly of Levein, who never sent out teams like that at Ibrox, for example, as Barca said. I can only assume the scale of the job (and the difference in scrutiny) has got to him.

I'm not sure that it was defeatist in approach, although it was certainly depressing in application. Levein said before the game that the approach was designed to draw them forward and hit them on the counter attack. Granted it didn't work (perhaps because the wingers sat too deep and there were too many long aimless balls to the no forwards), but I'd give Levein credit for at least anticipating/planning/hoping that there would be an attacking edge to the team.
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findus
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Jerry Kerr
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http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...uro2012&cc=4716

Levein kinda missing the point...

Quote:
 
Levein confirmed he would deploy a "different game plan" against the world and European champions but he made no apology for his Prague tactics as he attempted to move on from the furore over his striker-less formation.

"You're assuming I have read any papers, which I haven't," Levein said when asked whether he had been stung by the criticism. "I am very positive about this match. In fact I'm excited and looking forward to it, and the players are too."

The former Dundee United boss added: "Here's how it works: I got the job and the job is to try and qualify for the Euros. I'll do that the way I think is right. If it causes a little bit of a stooshie and some of you press guys get upset, then so what?

"That's not my concern. I've got a group of players who I believe I can work with and who everybody who watched against the Czech Republic realised they put everything they had into the match. For me, that's a great starting point and we move on."


Erm, Craig, it's not the media, you pissed off just about every Scotland supporter. God knows how those who actually layed down the time and money to travel to Prague felt about the setup and performance, and your responses since.

Sir Craig, where art thou?
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Barca87
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Gordon Chisholm
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Quite. I would not be so disapproving of whatever variance on a 4-6-0 formation he would want to play against Spain. I would understand that. What I still can not grasp, and he has not yet explained it well enough I think, is why we went to Prague believing that the Czechs are one of the best sides in Europe and accorded such reverance? They are not. And even if we had secured a 0-0 I would argue that that was a chance missed to do more, all down to a miserably defensive approach that I think was not backed up by the quality of the Czech side.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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Well, the honeymoon is definitely over now and Sir Craig is taking residence on the sofa, barking out for his dinner and another beer.

He needs results now, and fast, or this could be over very quickly.
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Cobardon
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Uncle Smurf
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Ivan
Oct 11 2010, 09:46 AM
Cobardon
Oct 10 2010, 10:44 AM
Barca87
Oct 10 2010, 06:43 AM
Ivan
Oct 9 2010, 05:05 PM
Last night was undoubtedly crap but I'd still give him credit for trying something new, however misconceived. It at least shows that he's thinking about problems and their solutions, trying to make an impact. Rather that than following the tried and tested (and failed) answers of previous managers.

I think he'll be lucky to see out the campaign at this rate though. I wonder if Houstie is in the market for another assistant.

I agree it was something new, but it was also the most depressing and defeatist approach to a game I've seen.

That's the depressing thing. I could just about have accepted it if we'd been away to Spain, where a ground out draw would have been an achievement: but the Czechs (ranked at a lowly #37) had just lost in Prague to Lithuania and were surely beatable for a team with the attacking flair of guys like Dorrans, Morrison and, yes, even Kenny Miller on his current form-of-a-lifetime. We gave them much needed confidence by ceding initiative to the extent that we were proving we thought they were one of the big guys: the Czechs must have been delighted when they saw the formation.

I think it speaks very poorly of Levein, who never sent out teams like that at Ibrox, for example, as Barca said. I can only assume the scale of the job (and the difference in scrutiny) has got to him.

I'm not sure that it was defeatist in approach, although it was certainly depressing in application. Levein said before the game that the approach was designed to draw them forward and hit them on the counter attack. Granted it didn't work (perhaps because the wingers sat too deep and there were too many long aimless balls to the no forwards), but I'd give Levein credit for at least anticipating/planning/hoping that there would be an attacking edge to the team.

I'll give you that he fully intended it to be not quite as defensive as it transpired, but he then proceeded to show one of his worst faults in his time here by not adapting when it wasn't working. We lost a fair few big games by that problem.
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