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Latest Accounts; to Jun 14
Topic Started: Apr 1 2015, 12:13 PM (3,903 Views)
Setenza
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Knitting with only one needle
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And probably the worst result, a statement that says nothing and doesn't even acknowledge the point most people are wondering about.

Quote:
 
“The Board of Dundee United has noted the statement issued by two Dundee United supporters’ organisations. All supporters can be assured that the Board will continue to implement its professional and comprehensive strategy for the football club. This strategy and the related actions of the Chairman and Board of Directors have delivered progress both on and off field.

“On field the Club has reached back-to-back domestic Cup finals for the first time in 29 years, qualified for European competition in three of the last four years, finished in the Premiership top six (formerly SPL) in every one of the last seven years and won the Scottish Cup in 2010. The current management team and players are also sitting fourth in the Premiership this season with sights firmly set on securing a European qualification place.

“Off field the Board has reduced overall debt, including Thompson family loans, from £5.2 million in February 2014 to £2.6 million while successfully extricating the Club from all bank debt. The Club debt is projected to be reduced to £1.4 million by the end of this year. And, in a period where Scottish football clubs have faced some of the most challenging economic times in history, the Club continues to pursue its strategic objectives and invests in facilities for the future.

“Supporters can rest assured that the Board is comprised of individuals that are, without exception, Dundee United supporters. They bring with them a wealth of experience in business. At all times, the Board acts to promote the success of Dundee United and will continue to do so.”


So, how long until the next statement in this saga?
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yasser
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Ivan Golac
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Club response

April 2, 2015

“The Board of Dundee United has noted the statement issued by two Dundee United supporters’ organisations. All supporters can be assured that the Board will continue to implement its professional and comprehensive strategy for the football club. This strategy and the related actions of the Chairman and Board of Directors have delivered progress both on and off field.

“On field the Club has reached back-to-back domestic Cup finals for the first time in 29 years, qualified for European competition in three of the last four years, finished in the Premiership top six (formerly SPL) in every one of the last seven years and won the Scottish Cup in 2010. The current management team and players are also sitting fourth in the Premiership this season with sights firmly set on securing a European qualification place.

“Off field the Board has reduced overall debt, including Thompson family loans, from £5.2 million in February 2014 to £2.6 million while successfully extricating the Club from all bank debt. The Club debt is projected to be reduced to £1.4 million by the end of this year. And, in a period where Scottish football clubs have faced some of the most challenging economic times in history, the Club continues to pursue its strategic objectives and invests in facilities for the future.

“Supporters can rest assured that the Board is comprised of individuals that are, without exception, Dundee United supporters. They bring with them a wealth of experience in business. At all times, the Board acts to promote the success of Dundee United and will continue to do so.”
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Conan the Destroyer
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"PS - the Trust can go and jump in the Tay."
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Naebody
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vvhatsthatonyourback
Apr 2 2015, 12:24 PM
Is there any suggestion at all that Cathro might get a cut or are you just fantasising there Naebs?
Total speculation on my part. He's the only person I could imagine who, in spite of not being a player/agent/other club, might be due a ~5% cut of a transfer fee. There may be others though. And, working on the assumption that nothing illegal or underhand has happened, I couldn't really care.

Shite statement from the club. Just terrible. They had two options -- say nothing or say something -- and they've picked neither.
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Setenza
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Naebody
Apr 2 2015, 04:16 PM

Shite statement from the club. Just terrible. They had two options -- say nothing or say something -- and they've picked neither.
However, they've put more out via a 'spokesman' speaking to Spence.

Quote:
 
A United spokesman said: "We've been reluctantly drawn into this matter and have no wish to enter a war of words, but the £500,000 figure is an entirely fictitious amount based on an incorrect assumption.
"At no time was that figure provided to anyone, so it's surprising to see it in the public domain."

...

BBC Scotland understands the club is also concerned about an apparent breach of confidentiality, having understood that both the correspondence sent to and replied to by the club were to be held in the strictest confidence.




I guess it's over the ArabTRUST and the Federation to explain the figure. Or hopefully just quietly run off.
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the.mule
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Destroyer suggested the trust jump into the Tay, i will up the ante and try to get the board to jump in there with them in a sink or swim scenario. We need a little transparency though so perhaps Caribbean waters would be more appropriate. The Tay would only cloud things further.
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Setenza
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Record going with the £500k going to McNamara and coaching staff.

Quote:
 
RecordSport understands the supporters have evidence the management staff are due a percentage of player sales as part of their contract and are preparing to put their names to a public accusation after a meeting next Thursday.

A joint statement from the ArabTrust and Federation of DUSC said they were “shocked” more than £500,000 had been taken out of the transfer fees and paid in commission to third parties – who they believe to be the management staff.

Thompson refuted the £500,000 claim and told RecordSport: “The figure mentioned by the Arab Trust and Federation is completely fictitious and one of many inaccuracies.”

But the United chairman refused to divulge the terms of the contracts of McNamara and his coaching team.

Thompson said: “I can’t confirm or deny anything about Jackie’s contract. That’s confidential.”


Which may or may not be true, but if true, makes things a bit muddier, and it's easy to see why fans are not going to be happy with the manager profiting from selling players, which could weaken the team. Of course, he may not be the one making the decision, but surely would have influence.

Even though I can see the issue, still can't see need for the public bickering.
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Hamish
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Setenza
Apr 3 2015, 09:55 AM
Even though I can see the issue, still can't see need for the public bickering.
Agree with that.

I read that it's a more common practice in England than Scotland.

I'd purely speculate that a percentage of transfer fees was part of the package that came with the [reportedly] £130,000-ish salary which was the reduced amount that Peter Houston wouldn't accept. Receiving a percentage for all player sales is less complex than if it would be for only players who arrived during his tenure (let's say Ciftci or Bilate as examples) and who were then sold. The latter would get tricky.

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Setenza
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Closer to the truth, one statement at a time.

Quote:
 
Following reports in a Scottish newspaper today, based on a statement by ArabTRUST and the Federation of Dundee United Supporters’ Clubs, perpetuating the inaccurate suggestion that the manager of Dundee United and/or other employees may have benefited through the payment of over £500,000 in relation to transfer activity, the Board of Dundee United Football Club issue the following statement:

“The Club engaged Jackie’s management team in January 2013 with a clear mandate to develop and play young talent in the first team. This mandate was in line with our strategic objective to reduce the overall debt at that time by successful trading in the transfer market. We sought a candidate who was more likely to develop and take the opportunity to blood young players in the first team rather than recruiting experienced players.

“The Manager’s basic remuneration package was reduced considerably, replaced instead by a performance-based contract, with several bonus initiatives, which included developing young players into actual transfer targets. This way the Club drove down management costs and engaged a forward-looking management team whose income would only increase by achieving results. This practice is well established throughout the UK, particularly in England where transfer markets are a substantial incentive.

“The Club has consistently positioned itself as a club that will sell player(s) if that sale is to the benefit of the Club and, we believe, the Club remains the best platform in Scotland for the development of young talent, to the mutual benefit of the Club and players alike.

“The Manager has now specifically waived his right to confidentiality and requested that we clarify publicly that certain bonuses are payable in respect of player transfers, but that he plays no part in any transfer negotiations. This remains the responsibility of the Chairman and the Board. All bonuses are capped and properly monitored.

“It is important to note that the Manager has not received bonuses anywhere near the highly misleading figure of £500k stated publicly this week.

“It is also worth noting that since January 2013, the Club’s overall debt has been reduced from £5.6m to £2.65m to date, and is projected to be further reduced to some £1.4m later this year on the receipt of the next scheduled receipt of transfer income.”


Since the only transfer income we're likely to get is developing young players, it make sense from a certain angle.

Of course, the size of the bonus is still unknown, as is who else gets bonuses, but seems like getting closer to clearing all of this up.

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zico
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Ivan Golac
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The club has the right to pursue whatever policies they think are prudent for the clubs benefit. This cant be beneficial and leads the manager open to suspicion of wrong doing and back handers in dodgy envelopes

After some careful thought isnt this along the lines of the bonus system that was geared to incentivise the players to win games in the 80s for big wages?
Seems reasonable to me
Edited by zico, Apr 3 2015, 07:02 PM.
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Tom_Boland
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Ivan Golac
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Quote:
 

It is also worth noting that since January 2013, the Club’s overall debt has been reduced from £5.6m to £2.65m to date, and is projected to be further reduced to some £1.4m later this year on the receipt of the next scheduled receipt of transfer income.


Players on tick then. Wonder how much more we're still due in total from Hull, Sporting, and Smellsick.
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TheDean
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Not opposed in principle to remuneration shaped around the club strategy. It's just that the strategy isn't set out well. I'd like to think that the commission tapers up according to the number of years the player has been on our books and playing in the first team. So the commission can't be that great for Robertson, but Gauld slightly more, Armstrong huge etc.
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TheDean
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TheDean
Apr 3 2015, 07:36 PM
Not opposed in principle to remuneration shaped around the club strategy. It's just that the strategy isn't set out well. I'd like to think that the commission tapers up according to the number of years the player has been on our books and playing in the first team. So the commission can't be that great for Robertson, but Gauld slightly more, Armstrong huge etc.
Having said that- it reinforces my view that the training suffers when we've got a players agent embedded in the coaching staff.
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Setenza
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Guess what, another statement. We'll be new the new rangers soon.

Quote:
 
We are hugely disappointed at the suggestion in the Dundee United statement of 3rd April 2015 that ArabTRUST and the Federation of Dundee United Supporters Clubs have been 'perpetuating the inaccurate suggestion that the manager of Dundee United and/or other employees may have benefited through the payment of over £500,000 in relation to transfer activity'. This adds to media reports of the false accusation that we leaked confidential information that had been provided.

We are sure that the Dundee United Board members who were present at the meeting of 26th March would appreciate that we have respected the confidentiality of some very sensitive information provided. This was agreed at the meeting - and we will continue to honour that - given that the Dundee United Chairman stated he was afraid of potential legal action based on what he was telling those present.

We cannot control how the media interpret a statement. Indeed, the only person who has been attributed comments in the press has been the Dundee United Chairman. Whilst we have kept a dignified silence since our statement was published, there has been a barrage of media spin in the last 24 hours from the Dundee United Board following an initial balanced statement yesterday afternoon. This further highlights one of our original concerns in our questions to the club i.e. the communications from the Dundee United Board.

At no point in our statement of 1st April did we imply, far less name, anyone who may have benefited from the transfers of the four players mentioned. We were concerned around 'commission' payments that the club had informed us of. However, they would not outline who they had been paid to - it now appears to be confirmed that Jackie McNamara was one recipient although we would continue to ask the club who else has been in receipt of these 'commissions'?

Our exact points are that we required a full breakdown of the transfer income leaving the club, as we were worried that the information shared at the meeting by the club was incomplete. The club did provide clarity in certain areas (which again we have kept confidential) and this is how we arrived at the 'over £500,000' stated. Despite the club promising us a full breakdown as an action from the meeting last Thursday, they have still failed to provide this. We would hope that the confidential provision of this would allow closure of the matter.

We repeat the original point we made at the meeting on 26th March and in our statement of 1st April that the shareholders in the club (of which both organisations are) and fans (of whom we are the main representative bodies) deserve to know where the funds that leave our club go. Every penny that leaves the club is one less to be invested in the playing side - which everyone will agree is the most important part of football.

Whilst we remain disappointed with the Dundee United Board's communications, we urge all United fans to head to Tannadice tomorrow to roar the team on. A victory tomorrow is required to set us up for the massively important derby on Wednesday.


I especially like the mock surprise the club actually responds to public accusations of improper financial arrangement.

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Naebody
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Twat
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Holy fuck.

Well, I guess we can begin to piece this together.

1. Arabtrust asked "where did all the transfer money go?"
2. ST said that some of it went on bonuses to club employees, details of which are confidential. The confidentiality is because remuneration agreements are always confidential.
3. Arabtrust, having been given this small amount of confidential information, thought it had identified a conspiracy and went doolaly.
4. Welcome to Amateur Hour.

So:
1. It was a terrible decision to sell Armstrong and GMS, which was compounded by the club's misleading statements on the matter.
2. Was the terrible decision to sell driven by self interest? Possibly.
3. Does the existence of a bonus structure linked to transfer fees prove self interest? No. It only proves that management is incentivised to maximise the sell-on value of employees, which is seen as mutually beneficial.
4. Do I like that policy? No. Not much.
5. But do I recognise it as a legitimate way to run the business? Sure.
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