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vs Celtic; #0 this March - Scottish Cup 08/03, 3.30pm
Topic Started: Mar 1 2015, 11:54 PM (4,731 Views)
Hamish
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Ian McCall
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Interesting statement from Celtic just now...

CELTIC Football Club notes that no action appears to have been taken in relation to Calum Butcher of Dundee United.

It seems completely illogical and fundamentally unfair that, in an incident where mistaken identity has been claimed, the Dundee United player now identified clearly as being involved in the incident appears to have no case to answer - and would be available to play in the League Cup final and the Scottish Cup replay between the two teams - while Celtic’s player may potentially miss both of those matches.

Celtic Football Club and Virgil van Dijk maintain their position that no red card offence was committed by Virgil.

Virgil will appear at Hampden to put his case on Thursday and we will fully support him in this appeal.

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vvhatsthatonyourback
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wild eyed
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I couldn't see anything worth red for either Van Dijk or Butcher, so appealing the VD red whilst not citing Butcher for something that wasn't worthy of a red seems the sensible thing to do. I expect, and with fairness and justice in mind, hope that Van Dijk's red is rescinded.
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Tom_Boland
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Ivan Golac
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If Shifty had given Broon brain damage, he'd have done Scotland's national team a great favour by getting rid of that chunt oe a captain.
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vvhatsthatonyourback
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wild eyed
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Tombo, don't you think that's going a little far?
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Setenza
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Knitting with only one needle
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Hamish
Mar 10 2015, 05:03 PM
Interesting statement from Celtic just now...

CELTIC Football Club notes that no action appears to have been taken in relation to Calum Butcher of Dundee United.

It seems completely illogical and fundamentally unfair that, in an incident where mistaken identity has been claimed, the Dundee United player now identified clearly as being involved in the incident appears to have no case to answer - and would be available to play in the League Cup final and the Scottish Cup replay between the two teams - while Celtic’s player may potentially miss both of those matches.

Celtic Football Club and Virgil van Dijk maintain their position that no red card offence was committed by Virgil.

Virgil will appear at Hampden to put his case on Thursday and we will fully support him in this appeal.

We should put out a statement noting we have them a little rattled.

Big game for them this week. They're badly wanting this treble.
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Naebody
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Twat
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vvhatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2015, 05:29 PM
I couldn't see anything worth red for either Van Dijk or Butcher, so appealing the VD red whilst not citing Butcher for something that wasn't worthy of a red seems the sensible thing to do. I expect, and with fairness and justice in mind, hope that Van Dijk's red is rescinded.
Tricky one, that. It's not clear on the footage, but VVD does have a stamp on Butcher's inner thigh.

Posted Image

(Apologies to all epileptics.)

If Ciftci's kick can be deemed deliberate and worthy of punishment, this can be too. A kick's a kick, irrespective of which body part it hits. So, yeah, the red looked a bit harsh at the time but it can at least be retrospectively justified.

Can see the logic of Celtic's whaambulance-chasing with regards to Butcher's retaliation. However, there's a point at which the dignified thing to do is shut the fuck up. They've already raced several miles past that point.
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zico
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Ivan Golac
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So there you go, you can launch into a two footed leg breaking challenge and get away scot free and complain about an innocuous kick to the head and get our player cited for so called violent conduct. Yet paton who is innocent has to appeal.
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vvhatsthatonyourback
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wild eyed
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zico
Mar 10 2015, 06:47 PM
So there you go, you can launch into a two footed leg breaking challenge and get away scot free and complain about an innocuous kick to the head and get our player cited for so called violent conduct. Yet paton who is innocent has to appeal.
Paton must be feeling rather irked about having to appeal when nobody in retrospect thinks he did anything wrong. I'm surprised and disappointed Craig Thomson didn't make it easy on everyone by admitting that was a mistake nice and promptly. Paton, in the meantime, has to go through the appeal process to clear himself of yet another offense he seems clearly innocent of. And didn't that work out well last time?

My prediction: Paton red card rescinded, but a much longer suspension put in place due to him losing the rag at the end of the process and calling everyone a c*nt.
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Naebody
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Twat
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If I understand the rules correctly -- and I probably don't, to be clear, because they're badly framed -- it seems that if the ref had rescinded Paton's red, the compliance officer could then ban Butcher for a transgression that went "unseen" by the officials. But because the ref hasn't rescinded, he demonstrably "saw" the transgression that got Paton sent off, and the compliance officer can't presume Paton will win the mistaken identity appeal.

God bless bureaucracy. Any god. Not fussed which.
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Conan the Destroyer
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I prefer it when we're pish
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So do they have time to cite and ban Butcher after Paton is cleared but before the final?
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radger
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Craig Brewster
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Wow, where to even begin, there has been so much wrong, not just in terms of decisions on the day, but in the aftermath too,

First of all there is Paton, everyone knows it is mistaken identity, but we have to appeal it. Does that not cost us 1000 pounds or something? Why would that not be rescinded on its own? Trying to find an answer, and all I can conclude is that if the ref rescinded that, he would face criticism for the other decisions made at the time and he would get more flak for perhaps not changing anything else. Better to keep a low profile and let other people handle everything. Anyway that will be rescinded, so we have that at least.

And with the above happening, it does appear Butcher has got off with it. But not for the right reasons, and Celtic have every reason to feel aggrieved, since Van Dick is facing a suspension, but the other lad in the incident is not. Surely if it was supposed to be Butcher who was sent off, he should be facing the suspenion (pending the hearing) and not Paton?

I have been a huge Ciftci fan since before he even made his competitive debut for us, he is such a good player and I have always felt we are lucky to have someone as good as him. But I honestly can not see what you guys are on about here, for me after he goes down he clearly shoves his foot into Browns face. If that had been spotted he would be facing a 3 game ban. So with that I would deem it fortunate we only lose him for two. And with everything happening, there could be no plausible way that could be brushed under the carpet.

Disappointed but not in the least surprised to hear Brown got off with his challenge. Are we saying that that is an acceptable challenge? Forget whether he got the ball or not, was that not dangerous, was that not reckless, was that not excessive? Leaving the ground with both feet in the air and the studs showing?

And the Connelly incident, well for me it was not conclusive enough, and so was correct to not be taken any further.

Anyway, we lose Ciftci, we have Butcher, we will have Paton, while Celtic maybe lose Van Dick. I see that one also getting rescinded though, simply because banning him would cause a fury at him being suspended while Butcher isnt. So out of the four possible reds, I see Ciftci being the only one to miss out further. He is out for the cup final anyway, so with all said and done I reckon the line ups for the cup final will be unaffected by all of this.
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Naebody
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Twat
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radger
Mar 10 2015, 08:48 PM
he clearly shoves his foot into Browns face.
You're probably right, but I still see some room for reasonable doubt.

So Brown goes through Ciftci and as they fall, Ciftci's foot goes over the top of Brown's neck.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Ciftci chooses this moment to turn away ...

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.. And shoves against what his boot is in contact with.

Posted Image

That's it. That's the kick. Two frames. Did Ciftci know he was shoving against Brown's neck? Based on the direction he's looking in the first two frames, possibly. Probably, in fact. But that's inconclusive evidence of intent. While I can't disagree with the ban, I think a lot of people are taking their lead from Brown's reaction to the incident rather than the incident itself.

(Incidentally, if I found myself in a position to put a stud mark on Brown's temple a few milliseconds after he halved me, I'd sure as hell do it. You'd have to be Gandhi to resist that impulse.)


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Setenza
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Knitting with only one needle
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Naebody
Mar 10 2015, 10:26 PM
.. And shoves against what his boot is in contact with.

That's it. That's the kick. Two frames. Did Ciftci know he was shoving against Brown's neck?
Well given his foot is in the air, what else is he going to push himself up against other than a person?

Most people would push themselves up with the ground, which isn't in the air.
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Tom_Boland
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Ivan Golac
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We need to react like Baloon did this coming Sunday. Every time he comes in we a tackle, our lads go doon in a fit of agony.
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Cobardon
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Uncle Smurf
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The only certain thing is that this puts added pressure on Madden this Sunday to have a good game. He'll be under pressure to give bookings rather than penalties for falls in the box - for United in particular of course - and if Brown does do an early cruncher it would be a brave ref who wouldn't get his card out. I'd suggest players should be sensible this weekend and not give him provocation.

Madden, at least, isn't usually too fast to resort to bookings or reds...I can only imagine how Collum would react in that situation! :smack:
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