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vs Celtic; #0 this March - Scottish Cup 08/03, 3.30pm
Topic Started: Mar 1 2015, 11:54 PM (4,733 Views)
Barca87
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Gordon Chisholm
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When you put it like that, it's hard to argue,
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TheDean
ALLEGEDLY CALICO
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Well that was "intense". For today I eschewed my usual place in the ET lower in favour of the GF. After a pre- match discussion with a fellow supporter on the quality of Nichols' pies and whether or not the Jim McLean era toilet inspections should be resurrected, I was impressed with my better view of the game and the more competitive attitude of the players, although the player line up wasn't exactly set for a win. Ciftci was too wide and left
Dowser to compete with the centre backs. However this was academic once the sendings off started.

Was Connolly a pen? It looked that way to me. Like Set when the Butcher/van ?dijk love in started, I was busy following the ball, but Thomson should and could have diffused the situation better than brandishing red cards without checking identities with linesmen that aren't up to the job.

I've not been one of Rado's big fans this season, and his kick outs are still crap so I put down today's improvement down to changing his goalie jersey to yellow. He was considerably helped by the fact that
Celtic were generally shot shy. If we face Commons, things might be different.

Pleased that Soapy got an outing but not sure about that dire free kick tactic of splaying it out wide to Jarek, who was at fault for the thumb's goal. Best of our outfield players was Butcher, so it's inevitable he'll be retrospectively banned by some compliance thingummyjig.

next Sat line up will be interesting. I expect Bilate to be up front, and I hope someone is there to put in some crosses - presumably Telfer , because Erskine was awful when he came on.

I just wish we could buy Scott Brown's Crown immunity from refs in Scotland. We'll have few players left by the fourth game.

Edited by TheDean, Mar 8 2015, 10:00 PM.
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Barca87
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Gordon Chisholm
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If I were to be generous to Thompson, on the sendings offs, he gave the linesman every chance to set out what needs to happen. On the telly, you could see him ask his linesman "send two off?". IF that's what his lino is saying, I feel he is obiiged to listen to him, it's something we always ask for. If the linesman has said "those two must go" he sort of needs to follow that through, no?

I think our pen is understandable, where is standing, it would look like a definite pen, so the criticism of that is over the top.

The sending off of Dixon was ridiculous. Penalty yes, sending off, not at all.

And my Celtic supporting brother in law, after droning on and on about how Celtic don't dive and United were cheats etc, seems to think Brown gets a hard time from refs. I nearly pissed myself...
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Conan the Destroyer
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Barca87
Mar 8 2015, 10:20 PM
If I were to be generous to Thompson, on the sendings offs, he gave the linesman every chance to set out what needs to happen. On the telly, you could see him ask his linesman "send two off?". IF that's what his lino is saying, I feel he is obiiged to listen to him, it's something we always ask for. If the linesman has said "those two must go" he sort of needs to follow that through, no?

I think our pen is understandable, where is standing, it would look like a definite pen, so the criticism of that is over the top.

The sending off of Dixon was ridiculous. Penalty yes, sending off, not at all.

And my Celtic supporting brother in law, after droning on and on about how Celtic don't dive and United were cheats etc, seems to think Brown gets a hard time from refs. I nearly pissed myself...
Dixon is either a penalty and a red card, or play on.

I can understand why he gave it, it would take brave referee to apply the rules correctly in those circumstances.
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Setenza
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Knitting with only one needle
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Having seen the highlights.

Never a penalty, was a bit of a dive.

Paton shouldn't have been sent off. Can't see what he did wrong. Should get it appealed.
Butcher is in danger of getting a ban, he clearly kicked out. Nothing too nasty for me, but could get a ban.
Van Dijk red seemed harsh. Not sure why it was as red - if for the tackle or the aftermatch. Either way, shouldn't get it rescinded.
Seen red cards for Brown's tackle, at least a yellow.
Ciftci's in danger of getting another red for a his kick out. Again, nothing terrible, but was a kick out.

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Conan the Destroyer
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Van Dijk's red was right I thought. If not for the first tackle then for the kick at Butcher in the stramash.
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Conan the Destroyer
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Does Paton actually have to appeal? Surely Thompson can rescind on his own?
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Cobardon
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Uncle Smurf
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Having seen the stramash a few times now Brown's tackle is pretty horrible, I don't see Nadir moving his foot at all to Brown's head - he's just moving his foot away from the player who has just two footedly lunged at him. I think he's usually a dick and gets himself into lots of trouble needlessly, but I genuinely don't think this was one of those times. The red mist isn't there for a change. His booking later was deserved, mind you (or at least would have been if our hapless official hadn't ignored exactly the same sort of pull back by Denayer in the first half).

Butcher did kick out and didn't connect, but should have been off. As should van Dijk.

Dixon's is, as Conan says, not a penalty but refs always give them. Handball has to be intentional but very rarely is. Once the ref incorrectly gives it though it's a red. Stupid, but them's the rules. (well, again that makes sense if he hasn't ignored the rule about the when to give a foul in the first place).

Connolly's I'm not sure about still...there's a contact, but he certainly makes the most of it. But given Celtic have history for diving all over the place they can hardly complain if one or two go against them now and again.

Brown would need to wap his cock into the ref's face to get booked though, wouldn't he?

Very pleased for Rado to regain his form so spectacularly today though. And word is Johansen is out for the replay, as Virgil surely will be too. That gives us a fair chance given they are the best two they have.
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radger
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Craig Brewster
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I'm one of the biggest critics against handballs being given as penalties, but can't really argue with the call made for their penalty. Its one thing if your arm is by your side, but another entirely if it comes up above your head. We can speculate on intent, and state that its ball to hand, but however intentional it was, he's made himself bigger and prevented a goal in doing so. Not John Terry esque, but still enough to gain an unfair advantage.

Can I ask what happened after the two sendings off, was it a free kick to united? The reason I ask is that if there is any mention of retrospective evidence, then united should highlight as much as possible Brown's tackle, which merited a red. The reason I ask the initial question though- if united got a free kick, then will that k.o a retrospective ban on Brown as the ref had apparently seen and dealt with the incident. Which is a nonsense but oh well. And I do see Ciftci getting a ban, as good as he is, he is something of a liability with his temper and though he got away with the last one, can't see it happening here.

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zico
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Ivan Golac
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Barca87
Mar 8 2015, 10:20 PM
If I were to be generous to Thompson, on the sendings offs, he gave the linesman every chance to set out what needs to happen. On the telly, you could see him ask his linesman "send two off?". IF that's what his lino is saying, I feel he is obiiged to listen to him, it's something we always ask for. If the linesman has said "those two must go" he sort of needs to follow that through, no?

I think our pen is understandable, where is standing, it would look like a definite pen, so the criticism of that is over the top.

The sending off of Dixon was ridiculous. Penalty yes, sending off, not at all.

And my Celtic supporting brother in law, after droning on and on about how Celtic don't dive and United were cheats etc, seems to think Brown gets a hard time from refs. I nearly pissed myself...
Scott brown gets a hard time from.refs?? Wtf?? He should be banned for 20 games by now, his assault on ciftci which sparked the melee a case in point. He is a dirty bastard.

As for.your brother in law, any conversation with a celtic fan always consists of 100% celtic 0% logic.
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Cobardon
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Uncle Smurf
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radger
Mar 9 2015, 02:43 AM
I'm one of the biggest critics against handballs being given as penalties, but can't really argue with the call made for their penalty. Its one thing if your arm is by your side, but another entirely if it comes up above your head. We can speculate on intent, and state that its ball to hand, but however intentional it was, he's made himself bigger and prevented a goal in doing so. Not John Terry esque, but still enough to gain an unfair advantage.

Can I ask what happened after the two sendings off, was it a free kick to united? The reason I ask is that if there is any mention of retrospective evidence, then united should highlight as much as possible Brown's tackle, which merited a red. The reason I ask the initial question though- if united got a free kick, then will that k.o a retrospective ban on Brown as the ref had apparently seen and dealt with the incident. Which is a nonsense but oh well. And I do see Ciftci getting a ban, as good as he is, he is something of a liability with his temper and though he got away with the last one, can't see it happening here.

If it's unintentional and his arms is up protecting his face, it's not a penalty. Except it is, because the refs nearly always interpret it that way. Either way, it was given and that was that. There's no retrospective call back on those ones.

The ref did give a free kick to United after the melee, but that doesn't necessarily imply the ref gave the foul for the Brown challenge...I rather think he didn't, his having had a good view of it and playing on at the time. Ditto the Ciftci 'incident'. It's hard to give retrospective punishment for something the ref has actually seen, I understand. I suspect the foul was given for the van Dijk over the ball one, though, on the assistant's (flawed) advice.

Anyway, I suspect an appeal will be going in for van Dijk today, but not for Paton when the ref (surely) apologises and rescinds his red himself.
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Naebody
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Twat
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The only explanation I have for the stramash is a case of double mistaken identity. The ref thought Paton was Butcher and Van Dijk was Brown. Then, in the belief that he sent of Brown earlier, the ref had to spend the rest of the game ignoring his blatant cuntery as if it were some kind of hallucination.

Dixon: as others have said, if it's deliberate he's off. No option. It probably wasn't deliberate, but it'd take an exceptional ref to view things that way.

Did Aiden dive? It's not obvious that he did. Of the three camera angles, one makes it look like there was little contact. However, he was in control of the ball at the time so to dive would be trading a good chance in the hope of getting a better one. The evidence is far from conclusive, so Ronnie would be very well advised to crank his neck in.

While I remember, a quick word about the Sky commentators. It's okay to be partisan. What's less okay is to be totally disinterested in the opposition. The pair barely even noticed when Dow hit the post, pausing only when it was replayed to grumble about how he "could've done better". Then for the whole of the second half they were willing the ball into the United net as if encouraging a constipated toddler to push out a shit. I know this is the modus operandi, but FFS it's tiresome.
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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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Cobardon
Mar 9 2015, 08:43 AM
radger
Mar 9 2015, 02:43 AM
I'm one of the biggest critics against handballs being given as penalties, but can't really argue with the call made for their penalty. Its one thing if your arm is by your side, but another entirely if it comes up above your head. We can speculate on intent, and state that its ball to hand, but however intentional it was, he's made himself bigger and prevented a goal in doing so. Not John Terry esque, but still enough to gain an unfair advantage.

Can I ask what happened after the two sendings off, was it a free kick to united? The reason I ask is that if there is any mention of retrospective evidence, then united should highlight as much as possible Brown's tackle, which merited a red. The reason I ask the initial question though- if united got a free kick, then will that k.o a retrospective ban on Brown as the ref had apparently seen and dealt with the incident. Which is a nonsense but oh well. And I do see Ciftci getting a ban, as good as he is, he is something of a liability with his temper and though he got away with the last one, can't see it happening here.

If it's unintentional and his arms is up protecting his face, it's not a penalty. Except it is, because the refs nearly always interpret it that way. Either way, it was given and that was that. There's no retrospective call back on those ones.

The ref did give a free kick to United after the melee, but that doesn't necessarily imply the ref gave the foul for the Brown challenge...I rather think he didn't, his having had a good view of it and playing on at the time. Ditto the Ciftci 'incident'. It's hard to give retrospective punishment for something the ref has actually seen, I understand. I suspect the foul was given for the van Dijk over the ball one, though, on the assistant's (flawed) advice.

Anyway, I suspect an appeal will be going in for van Dijk today, but not for Paton when the ref (surely) apologises and rescinds his red himself.
Supposedly the International Football Association Board (IFAB) slightly changed the interpretation of handball in 2012-13, Graham Poll explains here:

Quote:
 
Select group referees changed their stance regarding handball decisions this season and, in fact, advised Barclays Premier League managers that they would be doing so in pre-season briefings.

It must still be remembered that handball remains the only law which requires the act to be deliberate. Tripping for example has changed to just be a fact - did one player trip another.

I was taught to think 'hand to ball' when learning the laws to become a referee, but now you have to disregard that.

So how have referees changed their stance without a change to law?

The body who change law are the International Football Association Board (IFAB), which is comprised of eight members who all have one vote.

They are the federations (or FAs) of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales plus four votes for FIFA. As well as approve or ratify law changes they also issue guidelines or interpretations - advice to referees.

Regarding handball they now ask the referee to consider the proximity of the potential offender to the person last playing the ball, the speed of the ball and importantly whether the offender's arms are in a natural or unnatural position.

So the question of intent is now, did the offender deliberately place his arms in an unnatural position to increase the chances of the ball hitting him?

If the answer to that is yes then it is correct to penalise that player even though it used to be argued that was ball to hand.
With that in mind you'd have to say Dixon's sending off was probably correct.
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Setenza
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Looks like we've appealed Paton, but not Dixon.

So Dixon's out of the replay.
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IainArab72
Craig Brewster
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Just seen Brown's Press Conference. He said his tackle on Ciftci was a great one! Incredible.
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