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Squad Changes; thoughts?
Topic Started: May 18 2014, 10:19 PM (9,056 Views)
Naebody
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Twat
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Setenza
Jul 25 2014, 08:28 AM
Quote:
 
Dundee Utd now have no financial obligations to anyone a source at the club tells me. Effectively they are debt free.

"Effectively"? Does that include or exclude the £1.45m private debt held by parties unidentified?

The maximum payment under the bank terms was £2.65m, so that's almost certainly been maxed out by ~£5m (pretax) of transfer income. There's enough left to cancel the private debt too -- though if the mystery cabal is as benign as initially reported, why would you do that? And, in retrospect, was there any actual point to that side deal happening?

To summarise, we've ended up with a 13% haircut on the bank debt. That's better than nothing, but certainly not as good as the (fake) 63% haircut initially advertised. And while we're here, what's so good about being ("effectively") debt free? Credit is the cheapest it's been since 1694. If you can't borrow cash right now, basically for nothing, and make a return on the invested capital then you don't deserve to have "businessperson" on your Linkedin profile.

Quote:
 
Dundee Utd say no more sales after Andy Robertdpn deal done. GMS staying too.


Great. Perhaps he can play left back.
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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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Naebody
Jul 25 2014, 09:11 AM
Setenza
Jul 25 2014, 08:28 AM
Quote:
 
Dundee Utd now have no financial obligations to anyone a source at the club tells me. Effectively they are debt free.

"Effectively"? Does that include or exclude the £1.45m private debt held by parties unidentified?

The maximum payment under the bank terms was £2.65m, so that's almost certainly been maxed out by ~£5m (pretax) of transfer income. There's enough left to cancel the private debt too -- though if the mystery cabal is as benign as initially reported, why would you do that? And, in retrospect, was there any actual point to that side deal happening?

To summarise, we've ended up with a 13% haircut on the bank debt. That's better than nothing, but certainly not as good as the (fake) 63% haircut initially advertised. And while we're here, what's so good about being ("effectively") debt free? Credit is the cheapest it's been since 1694. If you can't borrow cash right now, basically for nothing, and make a return on the invested capital then you don't deserve to have "businessperson" on your Linkedin profile.
Good question about the mystery cabal Naebs.

Though in answer to your "was there any actual point to that side deal happening?" question I think the reason we re-structured can be answered in one line uttered by ST at the time.

Quote:
 
Very importantly however, the Club now holds total control over any such transfer negotiations.

Perhaps that important point allowed us to get as near as possible to the maximum worth of Gauld and Robertson?

ETA: The interest payments were quoted as £200K per annum in February, so you can probably add at least £75K to that haircut for the bank?
Edited by Morvant's Finest, Jul 25 2014, 09:34 AM.
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Naebody
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Morvant's Finest
Jul 25 2014, 09:29 AM
ETA: The interest payments were quoted as £200K per annum in February, so you can probably add at least £75K to that haircut for the bank?
Well, yes and no. Had the club just paid its net debt at par, it would've had £600k remaining post these transfers.* And unless the lender was Wonga, it wouldn't be paying £200K pa interest on a £600k debt.

* assuming these transfers could've happened under the bank debt structure, which may not be a fair assumption.
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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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Naebody
Jul 25 2014, 10:01 AM
Morvant's Finest
Jul 25 2014, 09:29 AM
ETA: The interest payments were quoted as £200K per annum in February, so you can probably add at least £75K to that haircut for the bank?
Well, yes and no. Had the club just paid its net debt at par, it would've had £600k remaining post these transfers.* And unless the lender was Wonga, it wouldn't be paying £200K pa interest on a £600k debt.

* assuming these transfers could've happened under the bank debt structure, which may not be a fair assumption.
Fair point about ongoing debt payments (as they would have been very low or nil), but was meaning the amount the club has saved in debt payments between Feb 2014 and July 2014.

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Naebody
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Morvant's Finest
Jul 25 2014, 10:47 AM
Fair point about ongoing debt payments (as they would have been very low or nil), but was meaning the amount the club has saved in debt payments between Feb 2014 and July 2014.

Sure. Though if you're getting that granular you'd have to net off legal and admin fees against the ~£75k of interest saved, at which point the saving would seem to slip to somewhere between nominal and nothing.
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vvhatsthatonyourback
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This is absolutely fascinating.
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Tom_Boland
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Heard folk in the United Shop this mornin talkin about this lad from Celtic.
Posted Image

Any skiffies anyone?
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Micky
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Tom_Boland
Jul 25 2014, 12:13 PM
Heard folk in the United Shop this mornin talkin about this lad from Celtic.
Posted Image

Any skiffies anyone?
How about "who is that lad from Celtic", for starters?
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Tom_Boland
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Ivan Golac
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Micky
Jul 25 2014, 02:48 PM
Tom_Boland
Jul 25 2014, 12:13 PM
Heard folk in the United Shop this mornin talkin about this lad from Celtic.
Posted Image

Any skiffies anyone?
How about "who is that lad from Celtic", for starters?
Goes by the name Joe Chalmers. Here's me thinkin we're all mind readers.
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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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He's a Left Back which is a useful start...

According to the Scotsman:

Quote:
 
The Scotland Under-21 youngster joined the Bairns on loan in January and quickly established himself as an integral part of the first-team, making 11 appearances.
So, who's willing to trawl the Falkirk and Celtic forums to gain the inevitably mixed opinions on his talents?
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Cobardon
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Morvant's Finest
Jul 25 2014, 04:29 PM
He's a Left Back which is a useful start...

According to the Scotsman:

Quote:
 
The Scotland Under-21 youngster joined the Bairns on loan in January and quickly established himself as an integral part of the first-team, making 11 appearances.
So, who's willing to trawl the Falkirk and Celtic forums to gain the inevitably mixed opinions on his talents?
Well, I can at least venture an opinion based on one game, having seen him at Dens in March.

Dundee offered little going forward so must have done a decent job but I'm damned if I remember him being outstanding. Still, having appeared in a winning team at Dens must be worth something for prospective Tangerines.

Don't we have enough in the can now for a bid for ICT's Graeme Shinnie? He's a good player and out of contract at the end of the season, so wouldn't break the bank you wouldn't expect. £100k - £200k or so could get him I'd have thought? Yogi can use any cash they get for him to buy some third rate donkey from Carlisle or Stalybridge or something so he'll be happy and his long term plan to get ICT back below his beloved Hibs can get a step closer.
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Naebody
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Well, I've been checking old club emails and in retrospect it seems we probably should've seen this coming ...

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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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Cobardon
Jul 25 2014, 07:37 PM
Morvant's Finest
Jul 25 2014, 04:29 PM
He's a Left Back which is a useful start...

According to the Scotsman:

Quote:
 
The Scotland Under-21 youngster joined the Bairns on loan in January and quickly established himself as an integral part of the first-team, making 11 appearances.
So, who's willing to trawl the Falkirk and Celtic forums to gain the inevitably mixed opinions on his talents?
Well, I can at least venture an opinion based on one game, having seen him at Dens in March.

Dundee offered little going forward so must have done a decent job but I'm damned if I remember him being outstanding. Still, having appeared in a winning team at Dens must be worth something for prospective Tangerines.

Don't we have enough in the can now for a bid for ICT's Graeme Shinnie? He's a good player and out of contract at the end of the season, so wouldn't break the bank you wouldn't expect. £100k - £200k or so could get him I'd have thought? Yogi can use any cash they get for him to buy some third rate donkey from Carlisle or Stalybridge or something so he'll be happy and his long term plan to get ICT back below his beloved Hibs can get a step closer.
According to the Tully it doesn't sound like we'll have long to wait before we have a replacement, and it won't be from within:

Quote:
 
The downside for United is they’ve lost their two biggest rising stars inside a month.

Midfield, where Gauld operates, remains considered an area where the squad is strong and there is plenty talent to cover his loss.

A replacement from outside is being sought for Robertson.

For some time now, Jackie McNamara has been studying a list of possible options.

While he was desperate to hang on to his left-back, the gaffer realised eventually a bid was likely to come that couldn’t be knocked back.

That means he will move quickly to secure a replacement.
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reekie
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Good.
(And by that I mean, "good news" not Curtis)
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Naebody
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If this is accurate, and United really did agree a 10% future transfer fee with Queens Park rather than pay £15k upfront, then someone wants shot.

(Oh, and I see their amateur status is a "loophole" again.)
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