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Squad Changes; thoughts?
Topic Started: May 18 2014, 10:19 PM (9,057 Views)
Naebody
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Twat
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Setenza
Jul 24 2014, 12:08 PM
Someone should e-mail Thompson and ask him.
I'll ask him when he turns up on my Tinder.

Incidentally, it's not beyond the wit of a football chairman to agree a player transfer using -- for example -- a £1 downpayment and a £2,999,999 loan between the clubs that'd be cancelled if the sun rises on September 1, 2015. Such contractual tricksiness might annoy the bank waiting for its cut -- but in that it's no longer United's bank, who cares? That's why I continue to believe the debt deal, as reported, is a nonsense.

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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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Naebody
Jul 24 2014, 09:26 AM
Setenza
Jul 24 2014, 08:50 AM
vvhatsthatonyourback
Jul 24 2014, 07:33 AM
With that weird timed release of the bank debt, maybe the club want less up front and rapid escalation of virtually guaranteed add-ons once the obligation to give the bank a cut disappears.
I'd imagine the bank would have covered that in the agreement, otherwise they'd be getting nothing surely. Sure the buyer wouldn't mind a year long delay before they pay much either.

Courier says Hull are going to come back again. If they keep increasing their offer by £250k a week, we should be just about there on the last day of the transfer window.

Did United agree to the bank deal after receiving Sporting Lisbon's offer and pledge him as collateral?
Is the bank actually due anything else from any other transfer?
Am I perhaps overthinking all this? Should I get a different hobby?
Q1) I'd be more willing to believe the bank just worked on the assumption that Utd had a number of saleable assets and so we were bound to get a decent offer worth accepting before the end of August 2015. The deal to Sporting Lisbon came completely out of the blue (even with Cathro coaching at Rio Ave), is it likely that such a massive, agreed deal, could have flown so far under radar that it avoided even being mentioned in the press or on fan forums? I'm not so sure.

Q2) Who can tell....but the club statement from the time at least seems to indicate a "reducing percentage share" is due as time passes:

Quote:
 
The negotiated terms included a payment of £1.45m to settle all borrowings and accruals due to the Bank at the date of the agreement, with any further payments contingent on the receipt of any transfer proceeds received up until 31 August 2015, during which time the Bank will be entitled to a reducing percentage share of these proceeds.

Q3) a) Almost certainly, though the lack of details does leave quite a bit of room for speculation....
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Naebody
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Morvant's Finest
Jul 24 2014, 02:15 PM
Q1) I'd be more willing to believe the bank just worked on the assumption that Utd had a number of saleable assets and so we were bound to get a decent offer worth accepting before the end of August 2015. The deal to Sporting Lisbon came completely out of the blue (even with Cathro coaching at Rio Ave), is it likely that such a massive, agreed deal, could have flown so far under radar that it avoided even being mentioned in the press or on fan forums? I'm not so sure.
I have a few problems with that.

1. Banks don't work on assumptions. They work on probabilities. We've been asked to believe the bank agreed to swap £4m for £2m and another coming £2m on probability of "dunno". I don't believe such a deal is plausible.
2. The "reducing percentage" thing is the kicker to that conclusion. It makes no sense either for the buyer or seller, for reasons banged on about at length already.
3. The deal from Sporting came out of the blue for Gauld, certainly, who only learned of it on his first day return to training. That suggests to me the club was keeping it secret, for whatever reason. Doesn't that seem a bit strange? Usually, when you get a bid for a player, you advertise it in expectation that someone else will beat it. Instead, United agreed a price in secret without consulting the player, who was then bundled into a sack and put on a plane as soon as he turned up for work. So when was the price actually agreed? Why should we assume it was in the summer (when Gauld's form was bogging) rather than in the winter (when Gauld's form was outstanding?)? And, more to the point, why was a price pre-agreed in this peculiar fashion? Under normal circumstances, what does United gain from doing things this way?

Perhaps I'll take up whittling.
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TheDean
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And in other news Scott Allan has signed for Hibs -2year deal :conf:
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Tom_Boland
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Just been on Sky Sport News that a fee has been agreed between Hull Sh1tty and Dundee United for Robie. Gutted if truth be told.
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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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Tom_Boland
Jul 24 2014, 08:55 PM
Just been on Sky Sport News that a fee has been agreed between Hull Sh1tty and Dundee United for Robie. Gutted if truth be told.
Just read that Tom, gutted as well, the figures quoted are £2M plus add-ons. If that's correct think it massively undervalues him.

There are only 2 upsides, it could indicate the club are actually getting a decent percentage of the fee (hence why we are keen to sell now), and he might prove to be an absolute steal in Fantasy Football.....
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TheDean
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Life goes on. This time last year no-one knew diddly squat about Robbo. now he's making us a fortune. the business model is working. so cheer up. :rock:
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Setenza
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I'd hope we'll get a few decent add ons. In the end, I think it's not a bad bit of business, even if it leaves us with a rather large hole in defense we'll struggle to fill.

It's good for him and following Gauld, again shows we're the club to come to to progress in the game.

If Telfer or Spittal do as well as Robertson, then we'll be in a good place all round.
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Tom_Boland
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Ivan Golac
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Morvant's Finest
Jul 24 2014, 09:47 PM
Tom_Boland
Jul 24 2014, 08:55 PM
Just been on Sky Sport News that a fee has been agreed between Hull Sh1tty and Dundee United for Robie. Gutted if truth be told.
Just read that Tom, gutted as well, the figures quoted are £2M plus add-ons. If that's correct think it massively undervalues him.

There are only 2 upsides, it could indicate the club are actually getting a decent percentage of the fee (hence why we are keen to sell now), and he might prove to be an absolute steal in Fantasy Football.....
Not only is that a gross undervalue, 2M is a pittance to an EPL Club.
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reekie
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I really, really hoped we'd hang on to him this season.
Hull may be great for him but they're likely to struggle, change manager, get relegated and he'll get lost in the Championship.
I'm on a downer.
Can you tell?

Good luck though, Andy. Hope you rock it!
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Cobardon
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Tom_Boland
Jul 24 2014, 10:31 PM
Morvant's Finest
Jul 24 2014, 09:47 PM
Tom_Boland
Jul 24 2014, 08:55 PM
Just been on Sky Sport News that a fee has been agreed between Hull Sh1tty and Dundee United for Robie. Gutted if truth be told.
Just read that Tom, gutted as well, the figures quoted are £2M plus add-ons. If that's correct think it massively undervalues him.

There are only 2 upsides, it could indicate the club are actually getting a decent percentage of the fee (hence why we are keen to sell now), and he might prove to be an absolute steal in Fantasy Football.....
Not only is that a gross undervalue, 2M is a pittance to an EPL Club.
It is, at that. But that's how the world rolls...bottom line is that anyone playing in Scotland (or any other 'Mickey Mouse' league) will be grossly undervalued in the biggest leagues.

I suspect a factor in it is that Robertson himself wants to move...it's ok saying he's level headed and not after money and all that, but you'd say as a neutral he'd be crazy not to want to play in the EPL against some of the world's best. It's not too far fetched to suggest if he does well at that level (and I suspect he can) he may even be looking at Shaw-like cash a year or two down the line the way cash is thrown about down there.

Also, we need to prove to all the young guys we've got -and are going to get- that we aren't going to hold them back when bigger clubs come calling.

He's certainly looked too good for our level this past season and we can only wish him well. I look forward to the Match of the Day highlights proclaiming him as one of the 'finds' of the season.
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Setenza
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Another clue on the deal structures comes from Spence.

Quote:
 
Dundee Utd now have no financial obligations to anyone a source at the club tells me. Effectively they are debt free.


So the bank commitment to get money must be maxed out or satisfied fully.


Also:

Quote:
 
Dundee Utd say no more sales after Andy Robertdpn deal done. GMS staying too.


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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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Slightly more encouraging news re the fee in the Tully:

Quote:
 
Scotland defender Andrew Robertson is on his way to Hull City after the English Premier League side finally met Dundee United’s £3 million asking price.

After a day of twists and turns, weeks of negotiation came to a close when the Tigers caved in and came up with the cash with their fifth bid for the promising youngster late last night.

Tangerines’ chairman Stephen Thompson had been adamant all along three million would be needed to persuade him to part with the 20-year-old.
Moving on, how many games has Paul Dixon played for Huddersfield recently....
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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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Setenza
Jul 25 2014, 08:28 AM
Another clue on the deal structures comes from Spence.
Quote:
 
Dundee Utd now have no financial obligations to anyone a source at the club tells me. Effectively they are debt free.

So the bank commitment to get money must be maxed out or satisfied fully.
Also:
Quote:
 
Dundee Utd say no more sales after Andy Robertdpn deal done. GMS staying too.
Thanks for the update Set, can't say that's not encouraging news going forward. Especially the news about GMS.

Given the publicly stated details below, can we assume the bank has received £4.1M - £1.45M = £2.65M from the Robertson (£2-3M) and Gauld (£2-3M) deals? So they've managed to recover just £600,000 less than the full value of the debt (which doesn't take into account the annual interest payments of course)?

Quote:
 
The negotiated terms included a payment of £1.45m to settle all borrowings and accruals due to the Bank at the date of the agreement, with any further payments contingent on the receipt of any transfer proceeds received up until 31 August 2015, during which time the Bank will be entitled to a reducing percentage share of these proceeds. The total amount due to the bank at the date of entering the agreement was £4.7m. The potential full payment under the terms of the agreement will be between £1.7m and £4.1m, depending on the Club's performance in the transfer market.
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vvhatsthatonyourback
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That's a big gap at left back we have now.

Well done A-Rob and club for a good deal all round.
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