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Summer Transfers
Topic Started: May 6 2014, 10:26 PM (4,005 Views)
vvhatsthatonyourback
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wild eyed
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I don't think that was the problem Bosman set out to address.
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zico
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Ivan Golac
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Conan the Destroyer
May 26 2014, 09:59 AM
There was a perfectly adequate solution to the transfer tribunal problem which could have averted Bosman and the horrors it has caused in European football.

Team A asks for £1m, Team B offers £100,000. Rather than picking a value somewhere in between as a tribunal usually did, they pick the most reasonable valuation. So, if the player in question is Billy Dodds then you might get £1m for him in his pomp. If it's Darren Dods and you ask a million then you're going to get the £100,000 and be happy with it. Would encourage both clubs to value players realistically.
Aye until we got shafted over darren jackson and not to mention shitey o neill
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vvhatsthatonyourback
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wild eyed
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I must add that (spurious Bosman reference aside) I think it's a good idea - any incentive to behave less like a cock has got to be welcomed.
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Conan the Destroyer
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I prefer it when we're pish
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vvhatsthatonyourback
May 26 2014, 12:48 PM
I don't think that was the problem Bosman set out to address.
Bosman couldn't move from Liege to Dunkerque at the end of his contract because Dunkerque wouldn't pay Liege's valuation. Bosman therefore claimed restraint of trade and the European Court threw the whole transfer system in the bin.

Surely my solution would've worked?
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Hamish
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Ian McCall
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Daily Express reporting that, of the Hibs players released on Monday, we are interested in Paul Cairney who played under JMc for a year at Patrick.
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vvhatsthatonyourback
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wild eyed
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Conan the Destroyer
May 27 2014, 09:40 AM
vvhatsthatonyourback
May 26 2014, 12:48 PM
I don't think that was the problem Bosman set out to address.
Bosman couldn't move from Liege to Dunkerque at the end of his contract because Dunkerque wouldn't pay Liege's valuation. Bosman therefore claimed restraint of trade and the European Court threw the whole transfer system in the bin.

Surely my solution would've worked?
Bosman's problem was that he was at the end of his contract and yet couldn't move to another club. It was the fact that the previous employer had any say at all over where he went that was the problem, and the failure of the two clubs to agree a valuation was only the symptom of that.

I wonder if someday a case like that youngster out of contract at Ibrox will one day put an end to compensation for young players in the same way as Bosman did. The problem is highlighted particularly in a case like this where a player is actually seeking to leave to get game time and is prepared for lower wages. A cynical contract offer by the club he is leaving could mean the compensation due is artificially high, and perhaps unaffordable for the destination club.

While this example is clearly atypical and goes against the intent of the compensation law of rewarding clubs who raise footballers only to have them snatched away by much larger clubs, it's the sort of case that a big club might like to take up to create a precedent and force the law to change so that they can resume low cost harvesting of diddy clubs' talented young 'uns..
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Setenza
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Knitting with only one needle
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Hamish
May 27 2014, 09:55 AM
Daily Express reporting that, of the Hibs players released on Monday, we are interested in Paul Cairney who played under JMc for a year at Patrick.
I don't remember him being that stand out in any games I've seen. Also, we seem to be covered in that area, at least for now.
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Naebody
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Twat
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Bosman was good providing one cares more about liberty than kickball. Compensation ditto. That shouldn't exist either. If its cancellation results in smaller teams suffering .... well boo fucking hoo. Perhaps they should try solutions that are within the law, such as front-loaded contracts.
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Conan the Destroyer
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Naebody
May 27 2014, 12:03 PM
Bosman was good providing one cares more about liberty than kickball. Compensation ditto. That shouldn't exist either. If its cancellation results in smaller teams suffering .... well boo f*cking hoo. Perhaps they should try solutions that are within the law, such as front-loaded contracts.
Theoretically of course, but the actual effect of Bosman has ruined what was a very enjoyable experience for all and made a very few elite players obscenely rich while throwing manys the journeyman on the Nat King Cole before they turn 28.

Surely a compromise could have been reached that respected the rights of the individual while giving consideration to the fact that it's a game and games that operate solely on freemarket principles are about as interesting as watching the FTSE100 results come in and hoping that British American Tobacco have done better than Unilever?
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Naebody
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Twat
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Conan the Destroyer
May 27 2014, 02:17 PM
Surely a compromise could have been reached that respected the rights of the individual while giving consideration to the fact that it's a game and games that operate solely on freemarket principles are about as interesting as watching the FTSE100 results come in and hoping that British American Tobacco have done better than Unilever?
Not really, no. You can't treat people as chattel. That's never going to be okay. It's a bit like the Pennsylvania compromise of 1780 that prioritised the status quo above liberty by freeing the children of slaves but not the slaves themselves. And yes that's a totally fair and not even slightly disproportionate comparison.

So Bosman has made a number of young men obscenely rich, and has contributed to the Champions League being quite similar to British American Tobacco versus Unilever. But, below that level, the game abides in much the same shape as it always did. Can anyone really say that the football was better, or that their entertainment from it was greater, when we thought it was good business to pay £350k for ownership of Michael O'Neill?
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Conan the Destroyer
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Naebody
May 27 2014, 02:51 PM
Conan the Destroyer
May 27 2014, 02:17 PM
Surely a compromise could have been reached that respected the rights of the individual while giving consideration to the fact that it's a game and games that operate solely on freemarket principles are about as interesting as watching the FTSE100 results come in and hoping that British American Tobacco have done better than Unilever?
Not really, no. You can't treat people as chattel. That's never going to be okay. It's a bit like the Pennsylvania compromise of 1780 that prioritised the status quo above liberty by freeing the children of slaves but not the slaves themselves. And yes that's a totally fair and not even slightly disproportionate comparison.

So Bosman has made a number of young men obscenely rich, and has contributed to the Champions League being quite similar to British American Tobacco versus Unilever. But, below that level, the game abides in much the same shape as it always did. Can anyone really say that the football was better, or that their entertainment from it was greater, when we thought it was good business to pay £350k for ownership of Michael O'Neill?
Absolutely, you cannot treat people as possesions. However, by removing any salvage value from a fully depreciated asset without doing anything to counteract the wage inflation that it creates for the top 2% the sport as a sport has been ruined.

Personally, I preferred it when more than one team could aspire to win the Scottish League, when more than four or five teams could compete for the European Cup and when all teams from diddy countries weren't purged from international competition by the end of August. I preferred it when a corner shop, by dint of prudence, hard work and skill, could grow a team of their own, and when supporters could identify with the players as any with a modicum of skill would hang around longer than two years.

Didn't you?
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Naebody
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Twat
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Conan the Destroyer
May 27 2014, 03:29 PM
Personally, I preferred it when more than one team could aspire to win the Scottish League, when more than four or five teams could compete for the European Cup and when all teams from diddy countries weren't purged from international competition by the end of August. I preferred it when a corner shop, by dint of prudence, hard work and skill, could grow a team of their own, and when supporters could identify with the players as any with a modicum of skill would hang around longer than two years.

Didn't you?
Yup. But I think (1) your memory of the past seems a bit rose tinted; (2) your view of the current seems overly poop tinted; and most importantly (3) while Bosman is a contributing factor to your various gripes, it's not the factor.

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Conan the Destroyer
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Being a Dundee Utd supporter my view of the past is of course rose tinted. I'm not sure a Kilmarnock supporter who had to watch their team pumped 7-0 every time they came to Tannadice will remember the 80s as fondly as I do. But Kilmarnock had won the league only 15 years previously. There was an egalitarianism to football back in the day. Anyone could win.

I found myself rooting for Atletico Madrid at the weekend, and when you consider Atletico Madrid a gritty minnow because they "only" had a budget of 123m euros this season, well, it's a bit shit, innit?

I agree Bosman is only one of the prongs of the trident, the English Premiership, the Champions League and UEFA's failure to act as a moderating force are equally to blame, but as it stands it's a big jobby of a thing.

Bosman became an alkie and ended up in prison for assault, did you know that? I didn't.
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Naebody
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Twat
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You'll get very little argument against the observation that football's gone Picketty. The outcome of unfettered capitalism is rising income inequality through the concentration of wealth. We have the 1% of clubs whose wealth grows faster than the game's overall value, and who are directly incentivised to make sure the game's overall value stagnates.

But the Bosman ruling was a symptom, not a cause, of the game's central dysfunction. UEFA tried to protect its fiefdom by arguing that European Union law didn't apply to football. It fought this untenable battle to maintain the status quo not for the common good of its members but in fear for its own survival. So it lost. The status quo disappeared. But the fiefdom that created the pre-Bosman iniquities remained, and remains today.

If UEFA ever wanted to address football's income gap, there's a simple solution. It could put in place the equivalent of a wealth tax on the 1% clubs. Instead, it's done precisely the opposite. Look at the way TV and prize money have been distributed over the past two decades, paying particular attention to the proportions going to the top tier .... what does that represent except for a regressive tax on the rest?

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IainArab72
Craig Brewster
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Isn't the transfer window a restriction of trade? If the player, the buying club and selling club all want the transfer to go through in say October, all parties involved will be disadvantaged.

I think a player and/or club will take legal action on this matter in future.
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