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The Russell catch-all transfer thread
Topic Started: Apr 20 2013, 01:07 PM (22,041 Views)
reekie
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lum raker
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Yeah, but it's just you, Naebs, 90210 and Findus drilling into this shit. With me chipping in occasionally.
Oh, and Chippy.

Ach, I dunno.

Albariño...
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TheDean
ALLEGEDLY CALICO
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Conan the Destroyer
Apr 30 2013, 01:34 PM
Any Johnny Russell news?
Hopefully might feature this Sat at least for a while
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Setenza
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Knitting with only one needle
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It seems like front loading is/was used in NHL to get around the salary cap. With some strange 14 year deals....

Quote:
 
Signing bonuses and front loading contracts will be banned, meaning cap circumvention will be harder to do. Owners want to make it harder to offer players these behemoth contracts (see: Minnesota Wild), but at the same times, these are the same guys that are creating these massive contracts. Two of the biggest advocates of banning these cap circumvention tactics are Ed Snyder, owner of the Philadelphia Flyers, and Lou Lamoriello, owner of the New Jersey Devils, are the two biggest offenders! The Devils have Ilya Kovalchuk on the payroll. Does Lamoriello think we’ve forgotten about the originally proposed contract for Kovalchuk? In 2010 the Devils offered Kovalchuk 17 years, $102 million and it was set so he’d receive 98.5 million of the $102 million in the first 11 years, the NHL ruled it as cap circumvention and his contract was reworked to what it is now, 15 years, $100 million. And Snyder is another vocal objector of cap circumvention and he is the one offering Shea Weber 14 years, $110 million! And I know there’s more owners like that, but there’s more to talk about. Signing bonuses are a way around the cap, players get big money without it influencing their cap hit. And front loaded contracts are beneficial for the players, big cash up front means if they end up hurt after 30 or 35, they’ve already gotten their payday. Using Weber again as an example: his cap hit is the same through all 14 years, $7,857,143, but by the final three years of his contract he’ll only be making a $1 million. His value is worth the same in the cap hit, but his actual payday is much less. Good for him, not so good for the team’s finances. Owners want to keep it so the pay is more evenly spaced out so the players do not have such a giant payday right from the start.


Not that it's directly comparible to the proposed system here.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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Setenza
Apr 30 2013, 08:49 PM
whatsthatonyourback
Apr 30 2013, 12:36 PM

1) It's bad for the club because it will result in overpaying players who ask for and get new contracts with us after the first year or two of their frontloaded contract.

2) It's bad for the player because he loses power in negotiations with the club regarding wages and transfers.

3) It's bad for the player because he will get paid a low wage in his final year of his contract.



Have I missed anything?

Are any of these descriptions of objections incomplete?
For speed, can just say yes that's the list, then you can state why we're wrong.
For speed, it would be better to get a clear and concise record of the objections to such a system.

This will save expending time trying to resolve such objections before being told - ah! but you've misrepresented my objection, and what about X, Y & Z?

There is no rush to try and get this right if rushing it means it takes longer to get it wrong. It might not work, but we'll never be able to say so if we can't even say clearly what its failings are.

What are the fundamental, concise objections to this system in your own words?
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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reekie
Apr 30 2013, 09:46 PM
As an aside, has anyone emailed the club about this?
Dear Football Club
We have been thinking, and have invented a new way for you to sign players. We've not quite worked out all the details, but it is definitely much better than how you have been doing it.

To hear more, please send money to Arabian2.

We look for ward to hearing from you

Regards
The Internets.
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Conan the Destroyer
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whatsthatonyourback
May 1 2013, 07:04 AM
reekie
Apr 30 2013, 09:46 PM
As an aside, has anyone emailed the club about this?
Dear Football Club
We have been thinking, and have invented a new way for you to sign players. We've not quite worked out all the details, but it is definitely much better than how you have been doing it.

To hear more, please send money to Arabian2.

We look for ward to hearing from you

Regards
The Internets.
No, seriously, if it's such a f*cking brilliant idea you should have the courage of your convictions and email wee Baldy Baws about it. What's the worst that can happen? He didn't even have Scott Allan shot.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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Conan the Destroyer
May 1 2013, 07:09 AM
whatsthatonyourback
May 1 2013, 07:04 AM
reekie
Apr 30 2013, 09:46 PM
As an aside, has anyone emailed the club about this?
Dear Football Club
We have been thinking, and have invented a new way for you to sign players. We've not quite worked out all the details, but it is definitely much better than how you have been doing it.

To hear more, please send money to Arabian2.

We look for ward to hearing from you

Regards
The Internets.
No, seriously, if it's such a f*cking brilliant idea you should have the courage of your convictions and email wee Baldy Baws about it. What's the worst that can happen? He didn't even have Scott Allan shot.
I thought you were out.

Certainly not heard anything useful from you in this thread for quite a while, if at all.
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reekie
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lum raker
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whatsthatonyourback
May 1 2013, 07:04 AM
reekie
Apr 30 2013, 09:46 PM
As an aside, has anyone emailed the club about this?
Dear Football Club
We have been thinking, and have invented a new way for you to sign players. We've not quite worked out all the details, but it is definitely much better than how you have been doing it.

To hear more, please send money to Arabian2.

We look for ward to hearing from you

Regards
The Internets.
Anything yet?
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Naebody
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Twat
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Pitching the idea isn't that ludicrous, you know. Generally speaking, people who run businesses take an interest in how their businesses are run.

Having said that, it appears our contract negotiations have been handled exclusively by a guy who until 2009 was responsible for putting the cones on the training ground. So perhaps we may be getting ahead of ourselves.

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Conan the Destroyer
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whatsthatonyourback
May 1 2013, 07:24 AM
Conan the Destroyer
May 1 2013, 07:09 AM
whatsthatonyourback
May 1 2013, 07:04 AM
reekie
Apr 30 2013, 09:46 PM
As an aside, has anyone emailed the club about this?
Dear Football Club
We have been thinking, and have invented a new way for you to sign players. We've not quite worked out all the details, but it is definitely much better than how you have been doing it.

To hear more, please send money to Arabian2.

We look for ward to hearing from you

Regards
The Internets.
No, seriously, if it's such a f*cking brilliant idea you should have the courage of your convictions and email wee Baldy Baws about it. What's the worst that can happen? He didn't even have Scott Allan shot.
I thought you were out.

Certainly not heard anything useful from you in this thread for quite a while, if at all.
I'm assuming you're scared.
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Vex
Paul Sturrock
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I've not been following all of this thread but having just gone back over it I have just one question.

Why would a player sign the type of contract proposed as opposed to what is currently on offer?

How does it improve their position in future contract talks.
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Naebody
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Twat
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Vex
May 1 2013, 05:13 PM
Why would a player sign the type of contract proposed as opposed to what is currently on offer?
Time motherfucking value of cunting money. The foundation of all financial transactions. Even in football.

Quote:
 
How does it improve their position in future contract talks.


It doesn't. The whole point is that it potentially disadvantages them in future contract talks, in exchange for unequivocally advantaging them in their immediate contract talks. That's the tradeoff.
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Vex
Paul Sturrock
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Naebody
May 1 2013, 05:22 PM
Vex
May 1 2013, 05:13 PM
Why would a player sign the type of contract proposed as opposed to what is currently on offer?
Time motherf*cking value of cunting money. The foundation of all financial transactions. Even in football.

Quote:
 
How does it improve their position in future contract talks.


It doesn't. The whole point is that it potentially disadvantages them in future contract talks, in exchange for unequivocally advantaging them in their immediate contract talks. That's the tradeoff.
Not need to swear... although I can see it has been a long 15 pages.

So it depends on the player and the advice he is taking. It has pros and cons. I really don't see why we have 15 pages of this.

My only other musing is that would a small club like ourselves with almost continuous cash flow issues (if not issues then concerns) ever be in a position to offer this type of deal? I'm not saying we would not be able to, just worth considering I think.

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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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Naebody
May 1 2013, 09:29 AM
Pitching the idea isn't that ludicrous, you know. Generally speaking, people who run businesses take an interest in how their businesses are run.
Agreed. I've done a bit of a report already.

Which is why I would like the best possible objections out there in the open.

It's not a competition - there are no winners & losers - and even objections I might think are ill-founded need to be addressed - it's a matter of making the best possible proposal and fully thinking through all the implications before chucking it into daylight.

I'm going to have to assume that, lacking any further input, those 3 objections I listed are it, and no further refinements on these 3 objections are out there. Which also means, if anyone wants to change their objections later, then that is too lame too late.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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Vex
May 1 2013, 08:44 PM
My only other musing is that would a small club like ourselves with almost continuous cash flow issues (if not issues then concerns) ever be in a position to offer this type of deal? I'm not saying we would not be able to, just worth considering I think.
I think that is the most fundamental problem with it. Paying up front will have an impact on cashflow for the duration of the contract.

The good thing about that is that the impact on cashflow is right up front and eases over time, rather than a long drag that has a strangling effect due to the inertia of players seeing out their contracts. I think there is general agreement that frontloading would reduce the number of players seeing their contracts to the end and walking away.
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