Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]

    Search       Member List      Official United Site     ArabZone      ArabTRUST       BBC Sport     Twitter
Welcome to The Arab League, one of the longest established Dundee United Football forums, with many members from the old ArabFC forum.

New members are always welcomed, so to join the debate, just sign up - registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Join The Arab League!


If you're already a member please log in:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Hearts get the knock from HMRC; Well, it's been coming.
Topic Started: Nov 7 2012, 02:02 PM (6,196 Views)
Naebody
Member Avatar
Twat
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
whatsthatonyourback
Jun 18 2013, 08:28 AM
John Brown agrees with me. And so he should.
I'll assume Mr Brown knows that he's accusing the Hearts directors of breaking the law.

My understanding of the process is that the administrator establishes at what date the company was balance sheet insolvent. After that date, if there was no realistic prospect for the company's solvency improving yet management continued trading, the directors are personally on the hook to reimburse creditors.

So I wonder if Hearts was trading from a technically insolvent position before last week? Or, to put it another way: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tom_Boland
Member Avatar
Ivan Golac
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Morvant's Finest
Jun 18 2013, 10:51 AM
....................

Of course there's a chance they could still stay up next season, and even if they don't there should be a play-off spot for the 2nd team in Div 1 to aim for in 2014-15?
Ah yeah, the play-offs - forgot about them. That could work for or against them, even in the SPL, this Season. When are they being brought in to play?
I
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Morvant's Finest
Member Avatar
Tommy McLean
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Tom_Boland
Jun 18 2013, 01:00 PM
Morvant's Finest
Jun 18 2013, 10:51 AM
....................

Of course there's a chance they could still stay up next season, and even if they don't there should be a play-off spot for the 2nd team in Div 1 to aim for in 2014-15?
Ah yeah, the play-offs - forgot about them. That could work for or against them, even in the SPL, this Season. When are they being brought in to play?
I
Looks like it will be season 2013-14 if all goes to plan: http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/aberdeen/229144-neil-doncaster-hard-work-starts-now-to-set-up-spfl-for-201314-season/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Morvant's Finest
Member Avatar
Tommy McLean
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Naebody
Jun 18 2013, 11:36 AM
whatsthatonyourback
Jun 18 2013, 08:28 AM
John Brown agrees with me. And so he should.
I'll assume Mr Brown knows that he's accusing the Hearts directors of breaking the law.

My understanding of the process is that the administrator establishes at what date the company was balance sheet insolvent. After that date, if there was no realistic prospect for the company's solvency improving yet management continued trading, the directors are personally on the hook to reimburse creditors.

So I wonder if Hearts was trading from a technically insolvent position before last week? Or, to put it another way: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Interesting Naebs, in your knowledge has anyone at a football club ever been found guilty of this?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Naebody
Member Avatar
Twat
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
It's brave to assume Hearts will be playing in any league next season. How up-to-speed are any of us on the minutiae of Lithuanian corporate law? Or, indeed, Lithuanian criminal law? And how much leeway can we expect KPMG to allow Hearts? I note in passing that KPMG (as a firm) has already liquidated Leeds United and Airdrieonians.

I also note that, unlike most football grounds, Tynecastle's probably worth more as something other than a football ground. It's an asset with a ~£16m book value that supports a business generating less than £8m in turnover and has failed to break even in twelve of the past 13 years. If administrators really want to protect value for creditors (which is, bear in mind, their jobs) then it's only sensible to start with the property.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Naebody
Member Avatar
Twat
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Morvant's Finest
Jun 18 2013, 01:35 PM
Interesting Naebs, in your knowledge has anyone at a football club ever been found guilty of this?
The only example I can think of is Australian businessman and awful cunt John Elliott, who was found guilty of keeping Carlton FC going as if it was the corpse in Weekend at Bernie's.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheDean
ALLEGEDLY CALICO
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Its stretching the credibility to suggest the insolvency event actually occurred in the close season. The SPL deliberately ignored all the badges of Hearts' insolvency under SPL rule 6.12 whilst the season was still going on. Bomber has a case.

Fortunately the Hearts ground is subject to a floating charge (unlike Ibrox) so the UBIG/UKIO reps call the shots on the administration.

I honestly can't see past a sale of Tynecastle for flats flats glorious flats and a revival of the SevconianHearts for Murrayfield saga.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tom_Boland
Member Avatar
Ivan Golac
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Hi TheDean. I got my info. from Rule A6.8 about the Insolvency in the "Close Season", but I see what you're meaning in Rule A6.12 where it seems to point the finger at the parent company.

If anybody else wants to look, check the Rules and Regs. yourself at http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s43
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Morvant's Finest
Member Avatar
Tommy McLean
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Naebody
Jun 18 2013, 01:44 PM
Morvant's Finest
Jun 18 2013, 01:35 PM
Interesting Naebs, in your knowledge has anyone at a football club ever been found guilty of this?
The only example I can think of is Australian businessman and awful c*nt John Elliott, who was found guilty of keeping Carlton FC going as if it was the corpse in Weekend at Bernie's.
Sounds like a right card, interesting to read about his adventures and knew nothing about him until now but this article seems to suggest it was when running another company, and not Carlton AFL, that he got done for trading while insolvent?

Either way, that's a Footy club, so it still seems to suggest that Football/Soccer club owners are somewhat immune to this particular legal pitfall....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tom_Boland
Member Avatar
Ivan Golac
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Their Administration has been confirmed on the BBC. Looks like they'll be in the SPL but start with -15 points.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22953448
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Morvant's Finest
Member Avatar
Tommy McLean
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
This thread on Jambos Kickback discusses the situation with regards to the floating charge on Tynecastle (well they mainly pick fights with each other about what the document means and whether it adds anything).

Anyone care to explain what it means to the less enlightened....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
reekie
Member Avatar
lum raker
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I see Hearts can't "rule out entering a 'newco scenario'.
I'm sorry, is this some sort of massive, generic, cognitive behavioural therapy?!
A "newco scenario"?
If this was Private Eye I'd expect at least a "surely liquidation - Ed?".
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Naebody
Member Avatar
Twat
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
reekie
Jul 7 2013, 11:03 PM
"surely liquidation - Ed?".
Well. Liquidation would be relatively simple in comparison to what they're proposing, which looks more like confiscating UBIG's assets for the crime of still existing. Is an administrator allowed to do that?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
whatsthatonyourback
Member Avatar
Waldo Jeffers
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I thought the administrator's priority was to get the most for creditors? Ha ha ha ha.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
reekie
Member Avatar
lum raker
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Naebody
 
Well. Liquidation would be relativelysimple incomparisonto what they're proposing, which looks more like confiscating UBIG's assets for the crime of still existing. Is an administrator allowed to do that?

I know.
For a firm who are administrating a company because they've been a bit naughty financially, using phrases like "circumventing the share issue" seems a little strange.

Edited to include Naebody's quote.
Wassa, can you check with me before you post to avoid this type of confusion?
Ta.
Edited by reekie, Jul 8 2013, 08:48 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Any Football · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Find this theme on Forum2Forum.net & ZNR exclusively.