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Scotland Brazil
Topic Started: Mar 21 2011, 12:55 PM (5,056 Views)
Conan the Destroyer
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I prefer it when we're pish
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The Eggman
Mar 29 2011, 10:21 AM
Conan the Destroyer
Mar 29 2011, 10:15 AM
Did you see the Norn Iron game? How did you feel about that? Admittedly The Gers-In-Green were fairly gash, but then so are Liechtenstein.
I gave that a miss. It was Northern Ireland's reserves, wasn't it?
Well there you go then. You hold a poor display against a poor team in Liechtenstein as evidence, but not the more recent comprehensive defeat of a less poor team.
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Setenza
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Knitting with only one needle
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The Eggman
Mar 29 2011, 10:15 AM
Setenza
Mar 29 2011, 10:11 AM
I think from a players point of view, he might be a challenging manager, so might take time to get going.
Is it possible that some of the players think that he doesn't deserve the job? Despite the good job he did at Hearts at United, he didn't actually win a trophy (I think), and finished fifth in his two full seasons at Tannadice.
Not sure. I think he's generally highly regarded, and there's not been any of the Burley style leavers or moaners except S Fletcher as far as I can tell. A few of them haven't been slow to make their thoughts known in the past.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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Impressive how many posts have been expended on one of the least remarkable games of recent times.

I've not been impressed by Levein so far. We've been a pain on the eyes and have shown little signs of improvement.
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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Conan the Destroyer
Mar 29 2011, 10:44 AM
The Eggman
Mar 29 2011, 10:21 AM
Conan the Destroyer
Mar 29 2011, 10:15 AM
Did you see the Norn Iron game? How did you feel about that? Admittedly The Gers-In-Green were fairly gash, but then so are Liechtenstein.
I gave that a miss. It was Northern Ireland's reserves, wasn't it?
Well there you go then. You hold a poor display against a poor team in Liechtenstein as evidence, but not the more recent comprehensive defeat of a less poor team.
The differences being that competitive games matter more, and I can't comment on a match I've not seen.

All I've done is comment on the matches that I've seen.

Were you not concerned with the displays against Liechtenstein or Czech Republic?

Despite what some people might think, results aren't all that count. Sure, Scotland got the points against Liechtenstein, but it was a stinking performance, and we got very lucky. We might even have scraped a draw away to the Czechs as well, but the performance would still have been concerning.
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Conan the Destroyer
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I prefer it when we're pish
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The Eggman
Mar 29 2011, 11:31 AM
Conan the Destroyer
Mar 29 2011, 10:44 AM
The Eggman
Mar 29 2011, 10:21 AM
Conan the Destroyer
Mar 29 2011, 10:15 AM
Did you see the Norn Iron game? How did you feel about that? Admittedly The Gers-In-Green were fairly gash, but then so are Liechtenstein.
I gave that a miss. It was Northern Ireland's reserves, wasn't it?
Well there you go then. You hold a poor display against a poor team in Liechtenstein as evidence, but not the more recent comprehensive defeat of a less poor team.
The differences being that competitive games matter more, and I can't comment on a match I've not seen.

All I've done is comment on the matches that I've seen.

Were you not concerned with the displays against Liechtenstein or Czech Republic?

Despite what some people might think, results aren't all that count. Sure, Scotland got the points against Liechtenstein, but it was a stinking performance, and we got very lucky. We might even have scraped a draw away to the Czechs as well, but the performance would still have been concerning.
I was at the Liechtenstein game so it's quite difficult to give an accurate assessment of the performance as we were laughing so much. Czech Repub. was an experiment that didn't work.

I'm not that concerned though, he is learning.
Plus 1) who else would take it?
2) I think we're improving
3) It's only a game.
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Homer
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Ian McCall
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Well, worse than any bad apples, or even bananas, it turns out there was a German in the barrel....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/9438033.stm
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findus
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Jerry Kerr
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It was, as Ivan says, very clear that Levein had told the players to be brave with the ball, which is no bad thing. The problem I thought was that it seemed that the players confused 'brave' with 'ponderous', compounded by their teammates having the awareness of space and movement of refrigerators. Though this space and movement issue is not a new problem to Scottish players, it seemed that on Sunday they were almost frightened do something not in the in-possession gameplan (= 'brave on the ball'; keep possession even if it means going back to McGregor time and time again so he can launch it, therefore losing possession; play long diagonal balls to Miller or to Whittaker to flick on to Miller; (none of which worked)).

Scotland did not play well, regardless of the merits of Brazil (it is possible to play poorly against a much better side, regardless of the stronger side's performance). We were fortunate to leave without a 4 or 5 goal deficit against a barely interested Brazil, in my opinion.

Levein has his work cut out - this ain't club football where you have the players 5 times a week and mould a style and understanding in a matter of months. Fit the system to the players, not the players to the system.
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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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Was just about the only Scot in the world who didn't see the game due to work commitments so can't comment on how we played. As for Craig Mackail-Smith I would imagine this is the kind of picture that might have Scotland fans less than convinced about his story about the long held dream he had to play for Scotland.

Posted Image
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Art Vandelay
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the king of carrot flowers
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Morvant's Finest
Mar 30 2011, 12:08 PM
Was just about the only Scot in the world who didn't see the game due to work commitments so can't comment on how we played. As for Craig Mackail-Smith I would imagine this is the kind of picture that might have Scotland fans less than convinced about his story about the long held dream he had to play for Scotland.

Posted Image
So? He's English. We all know that, given the choice, he would rather play for England. Eduardo would rather play from Brazil. I'm sure there isn't this wailing and gnashing of teeth in Croatia. I don't particularly like the rules as they are, but for as long as the granny rule exists we'd be foolish to not try and exploit it.
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findus
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Jerry Kerr
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Personally, I can't wait until the corporations fully take over and national teams are replaced by corporation teams. Sony v Apple; Prada v Primark; Coors v Carlsberg. Imagine it, much more exciting! :rock:
Edited by findus, Mar 30 2011, 02:51 PM.
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Skeletor
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Most likely to be Ann Widdecombe
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Art Vandelay
Mar 30 2011, 02:33 PM
Morvant's Finest
Mar 30 2011, 12:08 PM
Was just about the only Scot in the world who didn't see the game due to work commitments so can't comment on how we played. As for Craig Mackail-Smith I would imagine this is the kind of picture that might have Scotland fans less than convinced about his story about the long held dream he had to play for Scotland.

Posted Image
So? He's English. We all know that, given the choice, he would rather play for England. Eduardo would rather play from Brazil. I'm sure there isn't this wailing and gnashing of teeth in Croatia. I don't particularly like the rules as they are, but for as long as the granny rule exists we'd be foolish to not try and exploit it.
Nah. There are plenty more people I think are more deserving of a place in the Scottish national squad who have more basis to play than this guy. The grandmother rule is farcicle, and Phil Bardsley's story is pretty f*cking ridiculous. I would much rather see a Scottish team be beaten than this desperate lot, the granny rule must change.

And Ivan, I'll accept a banana thrown at me if they could throw a pineapple at you?
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Ivan
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F*cking plebs.
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Skeletor
Mar 31 2011, 12:24 AM

And Ivan, I'll accept a banana thrown at me if they could throw a pineapple at you?
How rude.
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Morvant's Finest
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Tommy McLean
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Skeletor
Mar 31 2011, 12:24 AM
Art Vandelay
Mar 30 2011, 02:33 PM
Morvant's Finest
Mar 30 2011, 12:08 PM
Was just about the only Scot in the world who didn't see the game due to work commitments so can't comment on how we played. As for Craig Mackail-Smith I would imagine this is the kind of picture that might have Scotland fans less than convinced about his story about the long held dream he had to play for Scotland.

Posted Image
So? He's English. We all know that, given the choice, he would rather play for England. Eduardo would rather play from Brazil. I'm sure there isn't this wailing and gnashing of teeth in Croatia. I don't particularly like the rules as they are, but for as long as the granny rule exists we'd be foolish to not try and exploit it.
Nah. There are plenty more people I think are more deserving of a place in the Scottish national squad who have more basis to play than this guy. The grandmother rule is farcicle, and Phil Bardsley's story is pretty f*cking ridiculous. I would much rather see a Scottish team be beaten than this desperate lot, the granny rule must change.

And Ivan, I'll accept a banana thrown at me if they could throw a pineapple at you?
Suppose it's a balance really Art, we've obviously had players like Matt Elliott and Neil Sullivan featuring in the squad in recent years who were qualified by the same rules, but when the coach states on his 1st day that he's going to actively encourage players to switch to represent Scotland, when they've never expressed any desire to do so before, it's disappointing to be honest.

I get real enjoyment when young players like Dorrans, Bannan and Snodgrass come into the team and play well, but I can't say I felt the same excitement when Commons or Morrison made their debuts. I don't doubt their commitment and will support them when they play but like Skeletor I can't help thinking that someone with broadly similar talent is sitting at home, desparate to play for Scotland who isn't getting a chance.

It's probably stupid to categorise players based on their desire to play for a Country (as nationality is nothing more than an accident of birth sometimes) but the story of Stuart McCall (whose Father was Scottish) is an interesting example that "qualified" him to play for Scotland in my mind:

Quote:
 
McCall was picked for England and Scotland under-21 sides on the same day in 1984,[61] and chose to play for England in a game against Turkey. However, he was only picked as a substitute and the referee blew the final whistle with McCall waiting to come on.[62] He later told Scottish newspaper Glasgow Herald, "I felt it was a mistake almost from the start. I was put on the bench and they tried to bring me on with a minute to go. But I took my time re-tying my boots and generally warming up and luckily didn't get on, otherwise that would have been that."[63]

Though when the Italian manager is saying that "Oriundi" are the future of Italian football it certainly doesn't look like the issue is going to go away anytime soon - Prandelli: 'Oriundi future of Italy'
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Art Vandelay
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the king of carrot flowers
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Morvant's Finest
Mar 31 2011, 12:21 PM
Skeletor
Mar 31 2011, 12:24 AM
Art Vandelay
Mar 30 2011, 02:33 PM
Morvant's Finest
Mar 30 2011, 12:08 PM
Was just about the only Scot in the world who didn't see the game due to work commitments so can't comment on how we played. As for Craig Mackail-Smith I would imagine this is the kind of picture that might have Scotland fans less than convinced about his story about the long held dream he had to play for Scotland.

Posted Image
So? He's English. We all know that, given the choice, he would rather play for England. Eduardo would rather play from Brazil. I'm sure there isn't this wailing and gnashing of teeth in Croatia. I don't particularly like the rules as they are, but for as long as the granny rule exists we'd be foolish to not try and exploit it.
Nah. There are plenty more people I think are more deserving of a place in the Scottish national squad who have more basis to play than this guy. The grandmother rule is farcicle, and Phil Bardsley's story is pretty f*cking ridiculous. I would much rather see a Scottish team be beaten than this desperate lot, the granny rule must change.

And Ivan, I'll accept a banana thrown at me if they could throw a pineapple at you?
Suppose it's a balance really Art, we've obviously had players like Matt Elliott and Neil Sullivan featuring in the squad in recent years who were qualified by the same rules, but when the coach states on his 1st day that he's going to actively encourage players to switch to represent Scotland, when they've never expressed any desire to do so before, it's disappointing to be honest.

I get real enjoyment when young players like Dorrans, Bannan and Snodgrass come into the team and play well, but I can't say I felt the same excitement when Commons or Morrison made their debuts. I don't doubt their commitment and will support them when they play but like Skeletor I can't help thinking that someone with broadly similar talent is sitting at home, desparate to play for Scotland who isn't getting a chance.

It's probably stupid to categorise players based on their desire to play for a Country (as nationality is nothing more than an accident of birth sometimes) but the story of Stuart McCall (whose Father was Scottish) is an interesting example that "qualified" him to play for Scotland in my mind:

Quote:
 
McCall was picked for England and Scotland under-21 sides on the same day in 1984,[61] and chose to play for England in a game against Turkey. However, he was only picked as a substitute and the referee blew the final whistle with McCall waiting to come on.[62] He later told Scottish newspaper Glasgow Herald, "I felt it was a mistake almost from the start. I was put on the bench and they tried to bring me on with a minute to go. But I took my time re-tying my boots and generally warming up and luckily didn't get on, otherwise that would have been that."[63]

Though when the Italian manager is saying that "Oriundi" are the future of Italian football it certainly doesn't look like the issue is going to go away anytime soon - Prandelli: 'Oriundi future of Italy'
I'm sure I read somewhere that Italy have used South Americans even going back to early World Cups, although someone who knows more about this than me (Eggman?) could perhaps confirm this...

I don't like the rule, but as I said we'd be foolish not to use it. Although I am not convinced Mackail-Smith is better than what we already have. I would be surprised if he is better than Goodie, but then again Goodie's non-selection is not for football reasons.

Neil Sullivan I didn't mind, but Matt Elliot was a dreadful footballer.
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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There are many prominent Oriundi.
The Argentinian Camoranesi's the most recently successful one (World Cup winners medal), and Brazilian Thiago Motta's just begun his Azzurri career (and scored the winner away to Slovenia). Argentinian Raimondo Orsi won the World Cup in 34, and scored in the final, I think. A lot of Italians are fine with it, but mainly because they see being Italian as a blood and genes thing, rather than a cultural thing.

I personally see it as a cultural and not blood thing. And if national football is about the country, then only people of that country should participate. I don't see the Craig Mikail guy being of Scotland. It's a dusty bin second choice.
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