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Thompson confirms exits; Most of the midfield to leave
Topic Started: Mar 9 2011, 10:51 PM (4,513 Views)
The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 01:55 PM
I think he's getting some rather unfair stick from at least two quarters on this board.
Tosh and pish. This quarter has made a suggestion that based on Stephen Thompson's repeated emphasis on the finances of Dundee United (and an overall impression I have of the owner), he may - note the term 'may' - have made a decision that is not in the best interests of Dundee United.

If that's what you consider stick, then I'd hate to see how you react to proper criticism.
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 01:55 PM
Continuing to run at the same level of expenditure will result in fairly hefty losses and risk the bank saying "enough".
No it won't. There are plenty of other clubs in serious debt. The bank knows that Dundee United will pay it off. In the meantime, the bank gets interest. It's the same principle as paying off a credit card.

If I have a debt of £2000 on my Barclays Mastercard, I get charged interest each month. I pay the interest, and a couple of hundred quid to reduce it to £1800 for the next month. Then I get down to £1600, but my work's dried up a little, so I earn less, and can only pay the interest. So the next month my debt's £1650. Work's tight again, and I can pay the interest only, so it's up to £1700. The month after, I've got work again, and can pay off £300 in addition to interest. Down to £1400. Then less work next month, up to £1435, then work again, down to £1300.

My income stream is steady, but it's decreasing slightly. Yet I'm reducing the debt on the Mastercard, and so the bank is confident that I'll keep paying it off.

And besides, I have my house and car anyway, so they know that if I do go totally skint, they can just take something I own.
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findus
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Jerry Kerr
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This will be an interesting topic to revisit in a few years time when we are a) languishing at the bottom the the SPL and are crying out for a half-decent midfield; or b) pushing for a European place for the 5th year in succession.

I doubt we'll be able to source and afford three midfielders of the same caliber for quite some time. It's been good while it lasted. The upside is a rejuvenated Scotty Robertson and Swanny are still in the ranks, both of whom I pray* stay clear of long-term injuries. Severin might still have something to offer in there, should he ever find the Ninewells exit, and Armstrong may well push on. It's not all bad, but it's not quite as good, most probably.

*in a funky skillo atheistic-type fashion
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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The Eggman
Mar 10 2011, 02:12 PM
whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 01:55 PM
I think he's getting some rather unfair stick from at least two quarters on this board.
Tosh and pish. This quarter has made a suggestion that based on Stephen Thompson's repeated emphasis on the finances of Dundee United (and an overall impression I have of the owner), he may - note the term 'may' - have made a decision that is not in the best interests of Dundee United.

If that's what you consider stick, then I'd hate to see how you react to proper criticism.
Suggesting a chief executive of a company is making decisions contrary to the interests of that club is a pretty harsh criticism, under the circumstances. In fact, I can't think of anything worse you could suggest. Incompetence is actually milder, as at least that is not intentional.

You're suggesting ST is intentionally acting against the interests of DUFC? Seriously? Do you have a lawyer?
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 02:36 PM
Suggesting a chief executive of a company is making decisions contrary to the interests of that club is a pretty harsh criticism, under the circumstances. In fact, I can't think of anything worse you could suggest. Incompetence is actually milder, as at least that is not intentional.

You're suggesting ST is intentionally acting against the interests of DUFC? Seriously? Do you have a lawyer?
Sigh.

Maybe he sincerely believes that cutting the debt sharply now will result in Dundee United being better off in the future.

Maybe not, and he is putting his financial interests ahead of the wellbeing of Dundee United. Perhaps he thinks "short term the team will suffer, and it might be beneficial long term, but I'm not that bothered - I want to do as little as possible to help the club, and protect my own financial interests".

Obviously I haven't suggested that he's intending to harm Dundee United out of spite against the club.

So, to reiterate - again - I don't know his motivations. Based on his comments, I suspect that he would be unwilling to fork over even a reasonable amount of money to keep the out-of-contract players.

ps stop being so dramatic.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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The Eggman
Mar 10 2011, 02:56 PM
whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 02:36 PM
Suggesting a chief executive of a company is making decisions contrary to the interests of that club is a pretty harsh criticism, under the circumstances. In fact, I can't think of anything worse you could suggest. Incompetence is actually milder, as at least that is not intentional.

You're suggesting ST is intentionally acting against the interests of DUFC? Seriously? Do you have a lawyer?
Sigh.

Maybe he sincerely believes that cutting the debt sharply now will result in Dundee United being better off in the future.
Who is saying anything about cutting debt sharply?
Edited by whatsthatonyourback, Mar 10 2011, 03:00 PM.
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Alpha
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Craig Brewster
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Sure I heard on Monday night .... I think it was on ESPN that Gomis has said he is going to decide at the end of the season what he is going to do. I also wonder if we were to win the cup again if these players would have a change of heart?
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 02:59 PM
Who is saying anything about cutting debt sharply?
Not renewing the contracts of valuable first team players and instead making do with existing squad members (thus paying no signing on fees, and less money in wages) implies further cost savings/cutting of debt.

Unless ST plans to bring in other players at a slightly lower cost in wages than United have for 2010/11. Call it a hunch, but I don't think that's going to happen.

So where players like Gomis, Conway, Buaben and some others who contributed to United's best season for 20 years (2009/10), instead the first team will be made up of unproven youngsters, on lower wages, and United will very possibly finish in the bottom half of the SPL next season.
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Alpha
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Craig Brewster
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The Eggman
Mar 10 2011, 03:12 PM
whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 02:59 PM
Who is saying anything about cutting debt sharply?
Not renewing the contracts of valuable first team players and instead making do with existing squad members (thus paying no signing on fees, and less money in wages) implies further cost savings/cutting of debt.

Unless ST plans to bring in other players at a slightly lower cost in wages than United have for 2010/11. Call it a hunch, but I don't think that's going to happen.

So where players like Gomis, Conway, Buaben and some others who contributed to United's best season for 20 years (2009/10), instead the first team will be made up of unproven youngsters, on lower wages, and United will very possibly finish in the bottom half of the SPL next season.
But then one does not have to look too far to see what happens when you spend money and speculate that because you have spent you will get the desired rewards. It could be equally argued that we cough up the cash to keep these players, who then on their nice new contracts do not turn in the performances ... and boom you are in the bottom 6.

Alternatively get the lottery numbers on for Friday £65m up for grabs .. then you can always invest in United ;)
Edited by Alpha, Mar 10 2011, 03:29 PM.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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The Eggman
Mar 10 2011, 03:12 PM
whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 02:59 PM
Who is saying anything about cutting debt sharply?
Not renewing the contracts of valuable first team players and instead making do with existing squad members (thus paying no signing on fees, and less money in wages) implies further cost savings/cutting of debt.
Ah, but cutting cost and reducing debt are not the same thing at all.

I hate to go over old ground, but you were paying attention when we discussed how United's income is likely to drop, and that last year we would have made a big loss if it wasn't for our cup win and 3rd place? i.e. just about as good as we could realistically hope for. We can't budget for that happening every year.

So, we're cutting costs to break even, with possibly a modest reduction in debt. I imagine the only significant reduction in debt will be when we ever sell a player for a decent sum.
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 03:28 PM
So, we're cutting costs to break even, with possibly a modest reduction in debt. I imagine the only significant reduction in debt will be when we ever sell a player for a decent sum.
Sell players then when you get bids of around £600k, instead of hanging on to them and getting bugger all.
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whatsthatonyourback
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Waldo Jeffers
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Alpha
Mar 10 2011, 03:27 PM
The Eggman
Mar 10 2011, 03:12 PM
whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 02:59 PM
Who is saying anything about cutting debt sharply?
Not renewing the contracts of valuable first team players and instead making do with existing squad members (thus paying no signing on fees, and less money in wages) implies further cost savings/cutting of debt.

Unless ST plans to bring in other players at a slightly lower cost in wages than United have for 2010/11. Call it a hunch, but I don't think that's going to happen.

So where players like Gomis, Conway, Buaben and some others who contributed to United's best season for 20 years (2009/10), instead the first team will be made up of unproven youngsters, on lower wages, and United will very possibly finish in the bottom half of the SPL next season.
But then one does not have to look too far to see what happens when you spend money and speculate that because you have spent you will get the desired rewards. It could be equally argued that we cough up the cash to keep these players, who then on their nice new contracts do not turn in the performances ... and boom you are in the bottom 6.

Indeed. And everyone else* in the SPL will be in a similar situation with the loss of the Setanta money filtering through to their accounts and projections. Our depleted midfield will not be playing against teh same midfields of this season.

*maybe not Hearts, as they seem to be using a new accounting system of their own invention.
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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whatsthatonyourback
Mar 10 2011, 03:28 PM
but you were paying attention when we discussed how United's income is likely to drop, and that last year we would have made a big loss if it wasn't for our cup win and 3rd place? i.e. just about as good as we could realistically hope for. We can't budget for that happening every year.
Ah yes, and there was the loss of Setanta income that cost the club about £800k, was it? Something that ST said didn't seem to add up on that front.

ST has been either dishonest or incompetent (better?) in some of his statements regarding the finances. Edit: Like the nonsense about the cost of the trip to go to Athens, as well.

Edited by The Eggman, Mar 10 2011, 03:34 PM.
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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Alpha
Mar 10 2011, 03:27 PM
Alternatively get the lottery numbers on for Friday £65m up for grabs .. then you can always invest in United ;)
Well, if my dad was a multi-millionaire who loved Dundee United, and put in a lot of his own money into the club, and then left me the money when he died, perhaps I'd want to follow on where he left off*, given that it was so important to him, he dedicated a lot of time to it even when gravely ill.

Perhaps.

*And put some - not all, or even close to all - of it into the club.
Edited by The Eggman, Mar 10 2011, 03:38 PM.
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The Eggman
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Tommy McLean
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Alpha
Mar 10 2011, 03:27 PM
It could be equally argued that we cough up the cash to keep these players, who then on their nice new contracts do not turn in the performances ... and boom you are in the bottom 6.
No, it can't equally be argued. If Dundee United were to re-sign the first teamers who will be leaving the club in the summer, there is more chance of United finishing in the top 6 next season. Not an equal chance. More chance. Therefore less chance of United finishing boom in the bottom 6.
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