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| Champions League 2011; hello euro knockout phase | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 16 2011, 11:09 AM (10,043 Views) | |
| findus | Apr 15 2011, 08:24 AM Post #106 |
Jerry Kerr
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Steady on!!!!!! 
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| The Eggman | Apr 15 2011, 08:25 AM Post #107 |
Tommy McLean
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Italy's dominance in the late 80s and 90s came at a cost - massive debt. That had to be paid off at some time, and they started paying back large amounts in the 2000s, so not only did England and Spain earn more, but Italy was paying back more as well. Even if those three were starting from a zero debt basis, England and Spain still has more income, and can afford to attract better players. In general, there's a bigger global market for English and Spanish football than for Italian football - it's more attractive for most fans than Serie A. But Italian clubs are now having more to spend, since much of the debt has been paid off, and at least they can start using what income they do get to buy players, spend on wages, etc. The rich benefactor (Berlusconi, Moratti, de Laurentiis etc) issue is a red herring, as even if they both wanted to spend 300 million of their own cash on the club, they couldn't, as Serie A now has tight regulations on sustainability, which are becoming harder to get round (Milan and Inter have already tried - there's a system of player valuation that can get round it to an extent, but even with clever manipulation of that, you can only get away with an increase of maybe 20-30 million of 'sugar daddy' money). So Italian clubs are now pretty much having to spend only what they earn. Unlike in England and Spain, where there are no such rules. Barca are 350 million in debt, for instance. Real likewise (even more, I think). Chelsea and Man City have spent far more than their club income. UEFA's plans on sustainability rules would have an impact, if they were to be implemented, but.... So England and Spain have zoomed ahead in terms of debt levels as well. We'll see how that pans out in a few years. Barca and Real will probably get some cushy government arrangement to buy a training ground for 300 million, or something... That said, and despite Serie A's (relative) austerity, in the last decade they've still managed CL wins in 2003, 2007 and 2010, compared to La Liga's 2006 and 2009 wins, while the Premier League has 2005 and 2008. Granted, probably La Liga will get 2011 as well. Overall though, in terms of co-efficient, Italy has lost its 4th CL place to Germany. Some of that comes down to performance in the UEFA Cup, as the points gained are almost identical. The strength in depth in Serie A isn't really there. The clubs are too flaky. Udinese shit one season, great the next, then shit. I can see the bigger clubs becoming more consistent, soon enough. Napoli seem to have reasonable stability, with an excellent manager. Roma have cleared most of their debt with the sale. Juventus are pulling it together as well. So I do expect a much stronger Serie A in 2015, say, with Milan, Inter, Juve, Napoli and Roma all reasonably strong now that debt isn't so much of an issue. There are no budding superstars, although there are some excellent players. There are a few very good players like Rossi. But he's already 24, and Quagliarella is 28. Balotelli has a lot of ability, but he's still not even close to those two mentioned, and he's an idiot as well. The most worrying thing is the lack of strong defenders. Inter's Santon is the only one with real promise, and his career has stalled. The other young defenders like Ranocchia, Bonucci, Criscito and Astori, aren't close to the defenders of old. And Chiellini is just pish. |
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| The Eggman | Apr 15 2011, 08:29 AM Post #108 |
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Tommy McLean
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You hurt me, Setenza, you really do  Enjoy it while it lasts, boys. ps The European Cup trophy still resides in the city of Milan, you bastards! 
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| Setenza | Apr 15 2011, 10:18 AM Post #109 |
Knitting with only one needle
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To be honest, I tend to like lot of italian teams. Just need Fiorentina to do well, and ditch their manager preferably. |
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| The Eggman | Apr 15 2011, 10:34 AM Post #110 |
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Tommy McLean
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Mihaijlovic is a fascist, racist bastard, all right. A nasty piece of work. Fiorentina are always going to struggle, simply because they're much smaller than the trio, and smaller than Roma, Napoli and Lazio. Florence just isn't big enough a city (even though it's lovely; probably the city I'd want to live in if I could choose). |
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| Morvant's Finest | Apr 15 2011, 12:45 PM Post #111 |
Tommy McLean
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Regarding Eggman's detailed comments on Italian football - what he said  Especially about Florence being a beautiful City! It seems to be very much a tale of two periods of debt when you look at the dominance of European football in the last 20 years, Italian debt in the 90s and early 2000s (with companies like Parmalat bankrolling minor teams like Parma to challenge at the highest level in Europe then promptly going bust) and now Spanish and English debt allowing them to (mostly) dominate in recent years. Although the cold financial facts surrounding the matchday income of Italian clubs is depressing for fans of the game on the peninsula, there are signs of progress as Eggs said, with the insane levels of debt being tackled by clubs like Roma and Lazio in recent years and at least talk of stadium building projects which would see a move away from shared municipal facilities. And despite the lack of success in the CL (and remember that Inter did win it last year...) this year's Serie A race has been pretty interesting, with teams like Napoli and Udinese innovating tactically, by playing 3 at the back and utilising attacking wing backs, in a league that more often than not lacks width and pace. As Eggs said the recent Napoli-Lazio match was a fantastic watch and although the atmosphere never comes across on the TV very well (bloody turn the ambient crowd noise up ESPN!!) personally I always think there's something a bit special about a big clash in Serie A. As for the National team, it's not a vintage era for Italian players certainly, but because of financial restrictions in the last few years clubs like Roma and Juventus have at least continued to provide the national team with excellent homegrown players like De Rossi, Aquilani (not the lost looking Liverpool version...) and Chiellini (who's admittedly not had a good season in a poor Juve defence), with younger players like Sebastian Giovinco and Claudio Marchisio coming through the ranks at Juve certainly not the finished article yet, but showing promising at least. The policy of promoting the growth of young Italian players is very much on the agenda at the biggest clubs at least and although it hasn't provided world stars yet (the Under-Age teams are certainly always competitive though), you can count on the fingers of one hand the great young homegrown players that the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd have produced in the last few years so it's evidentally not just Italy's problem currently... Oh and Findus as to whether there are "Any potential Maldini's" coming through, Paolo's son Daniel showed some early promise at least!
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| Setenza | Apr 26 2011, 10:37 PM Post #112 |
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Knitting with only one needle
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Was a fairly big gap tonight between Schalke and Man U. Was fairly one sides and plenty of chances to have a more decisive win. Not most entertaining, but plenty very nice attacking football. And another clean sheet away in Europe. |
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| The Eggman | Apr 27 2011, 06:57 AM Post #113 |
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Tommy McLean
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It was quite apparent which club was: top of its domestic league and about to win it for the fourth time in five seasons versus a side in the bottom half, had never won its domestic league, and had a new manager. As well as which side had a lot of experience in the competition (semi finalists in 07, winners in 08, runners-up in 09, quarter finalists in 10) versus a side with very little experience in the competition. And, of course, which side cost nearly ten times as much as the other. Man United did indeed play well, and I guess the line will now be put out that they're hitting form again in the spring, as they always do, and how with the home crowd at Wembley they'll be able to win against a tired Barcelona/Real Madrid side that had taken a lot of energy to beat their rivals in the other semi-final. I can only see Man United's midfield being dominated by whoever they play in the final, and expect an outcome similar to the 2009 final (albeit with a bigger margin). Nice to see Giggs continue his scoring run, I suppose.....
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| whatsthatonyourback | Apr 27 2011, 08:25 AM Post #114 |
Waldo Jeffers
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Impressive from United - they've hardly been a joy to watch this season, but last night's performance was very good. They blew Schalke away. Once they scored the first, everyone, including the Schalke players, must have known they were going to get another. Whoever they get in the final, it will be fascinating and exciting. |
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| Skeletor | Apr 27 2011, 08:56 AM Post #115 |
Most likely to be Ann Widdecombe
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I think than Man U can overturn Real Madrid at a push but will be helpless against Barcelona, based on how the playing styles would match up. Real used their physicality against Barcelona in the Copa Del Rey match, which is something United would have no problem dominating against them. Real have the flair and The Tactician in their arsenal in order to occasionally beat Barce, but I don't see United having the skill or resolve to beat Barce in the same way. So! If Real beat Barce, United to win it overall, if Barce beat Real, Barce. |
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| yasser | Apr 27 2011, 08:37 PM Post #116 |
Ivan Golac
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Messi = Class |
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| whatsthatonyourback | Apr 27 2011, 08:51 PM Post #117 |
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Waldo Jeffers
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Decent player that Messi. |
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| Setenza | Apr 27 2011, 09:48 PM Post #118 |
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Knitting with only one needle
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Still fancy Real to win for some reason.... |
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| The Eggman | Apr 27 2011, 10:12 PM Post #119 |
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Tommy McLean
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 2-0 or 3-1 Barca in the return. Real forced to attack, and so open up, and when they do... It might even become very embarrassing. What an awful match it was. A bad advert for football until the sending off. And Mourinho is poison. |
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| whatsthatonyourback | Apr 27 2011, 10:46 PM Post #120 |
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Waldo Jeffers
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I enjoyed it. Intensity was excellent, and the initial success of Mourinho's tactics were fascinating, as was his failure to move on to find a way to pierce Barca. Ronaldo's antics were hilarious, as were those of players and staff from both sides. I'm not watching it for an artistic demonstration of football at it's apex of beauty, although I wouldn't complain. I enjoy the drama and the spice, which is always particularly strong with Mourinho. Delicious, spicy poison. |
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